eis Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 272 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/11/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1956 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 A believer summits to all that comes to them after being saved, yet they are not added onto salvation. They are added to the church. Only the Lord adds them. The church consists of the saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eis Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 272 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/11/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1956 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) If it is something a BELIEVER submits to, then necessarily it is coming AFTER salvation. I agree that it is an act of submission, because it is a direct command to be baptised. But taking into account the plethora of scriptures on salvation, the case is clear that baptism is a response to our salvation, not a part of it. It is something believers do out of obedience. ~andy~, Let me ask you this. Salvation aside, is there a gift associated with baptism? Yes, read: Acts 2:38-40 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself." NASB Note, this promise is to them, their children and ALL who are far off... Also, if it is for forgiveness of sins how can you be saved without it? Edited April 20, 2010 by eis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2010 A believer summits to all that comes to them after being saved, yet they are not added onto salvation. They are added to the church. Only the Lord adds them. The church consists of the saved. I don't think you understood what I said. I was not speaking of any church, but the life in Christ we live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2010 If it is something a BELIEVER submits to, then necessarily it is coming AFTER salvation. I agree that it is an act of submission, because it is a direct command to be baptised. But taking into account the plethora of scriptures on salvation, the case is clear that baptism is a response to our salvation, not a part of it. It is something believers do out of obedience. ~andy~, Let me ask you this. Salvation aside, is there a gift associated with baptism? Yes, read: Acts 2:38-40 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself." NASB Note, this promise is to them, their children and ALL who are far off... Also, if it is for forgiveness of sins how can you be saved without it? That is selective choosing to back a belief and goes against the following. Acts 10:24-48 Peter Meets Cornelius 24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I agree it's not a work , also it is more than a symbolic gesture- something real and meaningful takes place through baptism. I think a lot of people get caught up in do this to be saved or say this prayer so you can go to heaven. But our relationship with Christ is a long journey marked with important events and mountains and valleys. A lot of people try to "get people saved" instead of loving them where they are at- showing them Christs mercy and grace through our own eyes. And discipleship- it is a life long process of living and becoming closer to God. Was there own particular moment when we accepting Christ? For some yea for others it has been a constant relationship throughout our lives- sometimes good and sometimes the bad outnumbers the good. Sometimes maybe we should just wash the feet of the sinners. Let God's powerful love transform- what are we here for? How do we accomplish that? Is it by telling someone about Christ? About getting them baptised? Or about loving our neighbor and walking our walk with them? Day by day discipling and living in community together as Gods people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Here we go again. . . . How about everyone just copy and paste what they wrote last time? You beat me to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.22 Content Count: 4,274 Content Per Day: 4.77 Reputation: 1,856 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted April 20, 2010 So what happens to infants that die before baptism? I believe fetuses, infants, babies, mentally incompetent who have no concept of sin are saved. Baptism without faith is just getting wet. What about those who accept Christ and don't get baptized until later. Are they not saved? What if they did before they are baptized, do they go to hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eis Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 272 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/11/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1956 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 So what happens to infants that die before baptism? I believe fetuses, infants, babies, mentally incompetent who have no concept of sin are saved. Baptism without faith is just getting wet. What about those who accept Christ and don't get baptized until later. Are they not saved? What if they did before they are baptized, do they go to hell? Hello Parker1, One thing about hypotheticals is that they rarely if ever relate to the person reading and able to respond to the message of the gospel. How about we let God deal with the hypotheticals. To the person who would be studying NOW, I would give the same response that Ananias gave to Saul, Acts 22:16 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' NASB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2010 So what happens to infants that die before baptism? I believe fetuses, infants, babies, mentally incompetent who have no concept of sin are saved. Baptism without faith is just getting wet. What about those who accept Christ and don't get baptized until later. Are they not saved? What if they did before they are baptized, do they go to hell? Hello Parker1, One thing about hypotheticals is that they rarely if ever relate to the person reading and able to respond to the message of the gospel. How about we let God deal with the hypotheticals. To the person who would be studying NOW, I would give the same response that Ananias gave to Saul, Acts 22:16 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' NASB Grace to you, I believe that if your are going to be dogmatic with your Doctrinal statements that you'd best be prepared to stand by them and not only that, defend them in every circumstance, hypothetical or not. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eis Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 272 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/11/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1956 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 So what happens to infants that die before baptism? I believe fetuses, infants, babies, mentally incompetent who have no concept of sin are saved. Baptism without faith is just getting wet. What about those who accept Christ and don't get baptized until later. Are they not saved? What if they did before they are baptized, do they go to hell? Hello Parker1, One thing about hypotheticals is that they rarely if ever relate to the person reading and able to respond to the message of the gospel. How about we let God deal with the hypotheticals. To the person who would be studying NOW, I would give the same response that Ananias gave to Saul, Acts 22:16 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' NASB Grace to you, I believe that if your are going to be dogmatic with your Doctrinal statements that you'd best be prepared to stand by them and not only that defend them in every circumstance, hypothetical or not. Peace, Dave Dave, Peace to you as well. Knowing that you have every ability and authority as a moderator to: A) close the thread B) kick me off the board, let me ask of you a question. Is it possible that hypotheticals are actually harmful in every discussion because they place those in debate in position of having to be "God" and "judge"? We are warned in Scripture to NOT do that. I think any of us are willing to discuss our position based on our study of Scripture to date. I know many here take offense at what I say, but I can tell you I have gained a greater appreciation for each of their beliefs even if I cannot validate their position. If I say, that I understand that Scripture teaches that one is not saved until they obey the gospel which to me means that they have to hear the gospel, believe, repent, confess and be baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit for (not because of - eis) the remission (forgiveness) of sins, then is it necessary to answer every single hypothetical situation that only God can handle? To the reader or hearer of the gospel message the question about the hypothetical that should be asked is, "What does that have to do with you?" God will take care of the "special" and hypothetical situations. He will judge, not me. Parker1's question is one to put me in the judgment seat. Of course we all know that is not my position to occupy, nor yours. However, if I say that I understand that a sincere believer is not saved until he/she is baptized, that's my understanding. It is not because I choose for that to be the answer, it is the way that I understand it. So, if the Watchmen or Admins wish to find fault with my understanding of the Scripture and find fault with NOT wanting to be placed in the judgment seat I apologize with sincerity. I have been around long enough to know the traps of the hypotheticals. Each one who wishes to ask about those hypotheticals can easily answer their own question about what I think about when one is saved by reading this post, especially the part that is bold. My privileges are in your hands to do as you see fit. If you wish to ban me, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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