Something broken in me

[winsomebulldog]

I get what you mean. I can totally relate... Church seems to some people a social club than an actual place of worship.

Something that was hard for me to get over was the fact that, our expectations of Christians should not be any different from the world. I know this is real sick.. but seriously, its best if we don't look at others but focused more on ourselves to improve our walk and to examine our motives.

I don't have a church that I can go to. It was the same reason you pointed out.. And it's really sad. So I listen to podcasts of Churches I like which are all throughout the Unites States and try to keep up to do date with what they are doing. On Sundays' I teach at a Orthodox Church the true gospel to the sunday school students... But something inside of me is missing just like you. I keep having these dreams of going to buy bread and only finding half eaten ones. Jesus said "I am the bread of life". God said "is any one hungry? come take your fill of wine or milk, its all free"... but I have yet to find it. A place where I can be completely satisfied. If I just at home by myself, worshiping the lord I do a big disservice to myself and others... anyway.. recently I started thinking about starting a home church here since there are no good churches in Toronto.

But throughout these 3 years that I have been a born again believer Worthy has become my church more than anything. I love the people here and I can confide in them. Don't go back to your old friends, believe me, they will try to pull you back into sin. I just cut off the last old friend this past week and feel the freedom already.

There is not one church in all of the metropolis of Toronto that you can worship God? Church is an oppurtunity for us to worship Him, and at the same time love our neighbors and join with other believers in body and spirit. It is SO important. It doesn't matter if you don't agree 100% with the pastor or priest, or with the denomination, it's not about that, it is about coming together as the Body of Christ and partaking of communion and worship together. To read his word together. To pray together. Nobody is perfect. If only perfect people went to church the pews would be empty.

Haven't you read this in the Bible?

1 Corinthians 15:30-33

30 And why should we ourselves risk our lives hour by hour? 31 For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you. 32 And what value was there in fighting wild beasts

[fromIslam2Christ]

I get what you mean. I can totally relate...

Something that was hard for me to get over was the fact that, our expectations of Christians should not be any different from the world. I know this is real sick.. but seriously, its best if we don't look at others but focused more on ourselves to improve our walk and to examine our motives.

Thank you for sharing. This is comforting.

Secondly Christians are not perfect. I am not. You are not. You say that that church you were at was abusive - does that mean they were physically , sexually , or verbally abusive? If what you mean is they had a set of doctrines that you disagree with then you have every right to leave, but I wouldn't consider that abusive.

Thirdly sometimes God doesn't want us to pray - sometimes he wants to talk to us but we are too busy talking to listen. Meditation is sitting silently clearing our mind, breathing and listening. He will fill you with peace.

CS thanks. i just want to let you know that when I said abusive, I mean abusive. I am not trying to be the holier-than-thou person here.

I dont want to get into details, but anyone who has been through sleep deprivation and collective water-only fasts, public humiliation, the listing of your sins on the pulpit during the Sunday service, and the sneaky reporting of everything you do the church leadership will understand what I have been through.

So, yes, it is not me being a spoilt brat and finicky with churches. It is me trying to recover from serious hurt.

There are tons of books written on Abusive Churches.... and Spiritual Abuse. Just so you see for yourself I am not making things up. Thanks.

Hey 2Christ -

I can relate to your feelings in a lot of ways.

I was in a fellowship that seemed to have been above all others in experiencing God, and it turned out to be cultist. It took me years to recover from that

(and I'd been a Christian my entire life!). I am speculating there were a lot of lies fed into your soul that haven't been weeded out yet, and they are poisoning your system. (That's one of the things I had to deal with.)

Later on I had to leave the church I had since joined to because of some things going on (long story). Again, it's been taking me years to recover. I hadn't been a member of a church for a long time after leaving. It was lonely not having the physical spiritual fellowship. But in some ways it was beneficial to be so separated (another long story).

I don't have the time to go through all the things I could tell you. But for now I just want to encourage you with this -

The best place to find the Lord is in the desert. You can read this in Scripture - the Lord is always taking His people into the desert to draw nearer to Him. On the outset, this seems harsh - deserts are dry and hot (and cold at night often) and barren. I plead many a tear for the Lord to get me out of the desert. But eventually things changed. I began to see beauty in the desert. It became easier for me to find and recognize watering holes, wells, and other sources of water. I found out how to glean food from the resources available. (This is all spiritually speaking, of course.)

That is my encouragement to you - do not be frightened! Trust that the Lord has you in the palm of His hand and isn't letting you go.

One thing you can do about the feeling of steel you have is to pray something like:

"If this is physical, Lord please heal it.

If this is of the enemy, please rebuke it.

If this is of You, Lord please bless it."

Some people feel physical manifestations of spiritual things. Sometimes it means the Lord means for you to intercede for something or someone; so you can ask the Lord to reveal to you if there is something He wants you to pray for.

Prayers and blessings!

Nebula: THANKS. You saw right away where I am coming from. It is good to know that I am not losing my mind and also that the process of recovering takes a while. I praise the Lord for His promises.

God bless you all and also South and or'el for your comforting words.

[Blien]

What you say holds great merit. I won't argue that bad company leads to bad behavior. You know, one rotten apple and all that. But I also know very well that there is no such thing as a perfect church. (If there were, then it would cease to be perfect the moment you or I entered, seeing as how we are not perfect ourselves!)

However, I believe it is wrong to reject all churches due to the flaws in some. I certainly understand the frustration of trying to find a good church home. My hubby's parents attended the same church FOREVER and it was a doctrinally unsound one. It took them decades to finally decide to seek a new church home. My mother-in-law was concerned that people would think they were "church hoppers." LOL I told her that NO ONE who'd attended a total of 2 churches in their entire lives could be considered flighty. Then, when they began attending the church we are now at, she claimed that they were never going to join. They'd just go to the services and leave it at that. I warned her that this was the wrong attitude. She'd been hurt by her previous church and now didn't want to commit to another one. But that's exactly what God wants us to do. We lose a great deal when we refuse to attend church. No matter how many services or lessons we watch or listen to, they cannot replace the reality of communal worship within a body of believers.

Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works.

And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

Heb 10:23-25 (NLT)

The local body of believers is important. It is scriptural. It is not always easy to find, but it is there. Sometimes the body that the Lord leads us to is not what we think we need or want. I grew up in a fairly large church (not a mega church, as those are relatively recent in arrival) and was an active participant in both adult and youth choirs. I have been a singer my entire life and absolutely loved joining my voice with others to create beautiful harmonies for the Lord. Yet, when it was time for my hubby and I to find a church here, God led us to a tiny little congregation (no more than 30 -40 on Sunday mornings.) There is no choir. We don't have enough members for one. I still miss it and were it up to me, I would possibly go hunt for a larger church were I could join a choir again. But ultimately, I am where God wants me to be. I have to trust Him and not let my own desires lead me elsewhere. We must trust God and not ourselves in this matter just like others. I honestly do not believe He ever wants us to stay out of church. We are so vulnerable when we do that.

Well, listen to me up on my soap box! I'll humbly climb down now.

Blessings and prayers!

Hi winsomebulldog, I have no disagreements with you. But I do have one question. Did you read my first post? I said that I wanted to find a church but so far could find none. I said it was uncomfortable to be without a church I could go to so was considering starting a home church. CSLewis didn't read my post correctly and took it out of context but I didn't bother to point it out to him.

Anyway, my issues with the churches here is nothing to do with disagreements on doctrine but the conduct of the believers. I found one time a church that I absolutely loved. It was amazing and I was having a great time in their fellowship except for the congregation being cold to me, since I was probably the youngest person there. Anyway.. one day, one of ladies there called my mom and said "congratulations on your son receiving Christ and coming to OUR church!". It was a penetcostal church I was going to and my whole family is orhtodox. When my mom heard this she freaked out on me and absolutely went balaistic on me. So, not wanting to offend her (Matthew 17:27), I stopped going until I could slowly and easily break it down to hear that the orthodox church is seriously misguided. Yet I would sneak out whenever I could to find another church where there weren't loose lips.

Finally one day I moved out of my parents house. When I moved out, I told the LORD "God you know the first thing I'm going to do is find a church and get planted"... and that is what I did.. I looked found a great one near by and started attending it. After the third time going there I got sick to my stomach.. I though.. gosh is there no church that is preaching the word?? What these people were doing is preaching worldly messages and the sermon was only 30 minutes long AND to make matters even worse than that, took took the offering BEFORE the service even started. I was constantly being stalked by these church leaders too so that they can "SAVE" me even though I was already saved. Everyone there seemed to look at me with glossy eyes as if I was despised in their site. So I left.

A couple of months ago found another church and thought to myself finally this one ought to be good. Because one of my new friends who is as fervent as me in the Lord was telling me great things about it. When went, I got a very unwelcoming spiritual experience lets say that. This was a charismatic church.. and I was really questioning what they were doing... but I held on and waited to see more. I would notice, issues here and there of pride or immaturity from the church leaders and members but I over looked it because I was desperate to become a church member some place. I came to finally accept them and started to become one of their members. Then one day, the leader of the cell group that I go to approached me on the phone about why I chose not to attend the "encounter" retreat. I didn't want to tell him that things were financially tough for me so I told him the secondary reason for why I was not going. Then he started to lecture me for almost an hour about how if I did not go to the retreat. I couldn't become a member of that church and that I would be a guest. And he welcomed me to leave! All this while I know that in that church I went to some of my friends told me they never went to an encounter. And all just suggested that I go because it would be fun. Not the 12 step process he told me over the phone. I told this to the friend who invited me to that church in the first place and she was shocked. Telling me she coldn't belive how they treated me. So I said, I will not come for about two weeks but I'll come later when I'm not angry. About 2 weeks later I get a text message from one of the church leaders asking me why she hasn't seen me in such a while. So thinking she had good intentions I told her what happened. Then she started to tell me that the cell group leader was in the right and I was in the wrong and that I needed to repent????? Now why on earth would I go to there assembly if the church leaders are this cold to their members?

[winsomebulldog]

What you say holds great merit. I won't argue that bad company leads to bad behavior. You know, one rotten apple and all that. But I also know very well that there is no such thing as a perfect church. (If there were, then it would cease to be perfect the moment you or I entered, seeing as how we are not perfect ourselves!)

However, I believe it is wrong to reject all churches due to the flaws in some. I certainly understand the frustration of trying to find a good church home. My hubby's parents attended the same church FOREVER and it was a doctrinally unsound one. It took them decades to finally decide to seek a new church home. My mother-in-law was concerned that people would think they were "church hoppers." LOL I told her that NO ONE who'd attended a total of 2 churches in their entire lives could be considered flighty. Then, when they began attending the church we are now at, she claimed that they were never going to join. They'd just go to the services and leave it at that. I warned her that this was the wrong attitude. She'd been hurt by her previous church and now didn't want to commit to another one. But that's exactly what God wants us to do. We lose a great deal when we refuse to attend church. No matter how many services or lessons we watch or listen to, they cannot replace the reality of communal worship within a body of believers.

Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works.

And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

Heb 10:23-25 (NLT)

The local body of believers is important. It is scriptural. It is not always easy to find, but it is there. Sometimes the body that the Lord leads us to is not what we think we need or want. I grew up in a fairly large church (not a mega church, as those are relatively recent in arrival) and was an active participant in both adult and youth choirs. I have been a singer my entire life and absolutely loved joining my voice with others to create beautiful harmonies for the Lord. Yet, when it was time for my hubby and I to find a church here, God led us to a tiny little congregation (no more than 30 -40 on Sunday mornings.) There is no choir. We don't have enough members for one. I still miss it and were it up to me, I would possibly go hunt for a larger church were I could join a choir again. But ultimately, I am where God wants me to be. I have to trust Him and not let my own desires lead me elsewhere. We must trust God and not ourselves in this matter just like others. I honestly do not believe He ever wants us to stay out of church. We are so vulnerable when we do that.

Well, listen to me up on my soap box! I'll humbly climb down now.

Blessings and prayers!

Hi winsomebulldog, I have no disagreements with you. But I do have one question. Did you read my first post? I said that I wanted to find a church but so far could find none. I said it was uncomfortable to be without a church I could go to so was considering starting a home church. CSLewis didn't read my post correctly and took it out of context but I didn't bother to point it out to him.

Anyway, my issues with the churches here is nothing to do with disagreements on doctrine but the conduct of the believers. I found one time a church that I absolutely loved. It was amazing and I was having a great time in their fellowship except for the congregation being cold to me, since I was probably the youngest person there. Anyway.. one day, one of ladies there called my mom and said "congratulations on your son receiving Christ and coming to OUR church!". It was a penetcostal church I was going to and my whole family is orhtodox. When my mom heard this she freaked out on me and absolutely went balaistic on me. So, not wanting to offend her (Matthew 17:27), I stopped going until I could slowly and easily break it down to hear that the orthodox church is seriously misguided. Yet I would sneak out whenever I could to find another church where there weren't loose lips.

Finally one day I moved out of my parents house. When I moved out, I told the LORD "God you know the first thing I'm going to do is find a church and get planted"... and that is what I did.. I looked found a great one near by and started attending it. After the third time going there I got sick to my stomach.. I though.. gosh is there no church that is preaching the word?? What these people were doing is preaching worldly messages and the sermon was only 30 minutes long AND to make matters even worse than that, took took the offering BEFORE the service even started. I was constantly being stalked by these church leaders too so that they can "SAVE" me even though I was already saved. Everyone there seemed to look at me with glossy eyes as if I was despised in their site. So I left.

A couple of months ago found another church and thought to myself finally this one ought to be good. Because one of my new friends who is as fervent as me in the Lord was telling me great things about it. When went, I got a very unwelcoming spiritual experience lets say that. This was a charismatic church.. and I was really questioning what they were doing... but I held on and waited to see more. I would notice, issues here and there of pride or immaturity from the church leaders and members but I over looked it because I was desperate to become a church member some place. I came to finally accept them and started to become one of their members. Then one day, the leader of the cell group that I go to approached me on the phone about why I chose not to attend the "encounter" retreat. I didn't want to tell him that things were financially tough for me so I told him the secondary reason for why I was not going. Then he started to lecture me for almost an hour about how if I did not go to the retreat. I couldn't become a member of that church and that I would be a guest. And he welcomed me to leave! All this while I know that in that church I went to some of my friends told me they never went to an encounter. And all just suggested that I go because it would be fun. Not the 12 step process he told me over the phone. I told this to the friend who invited me to that church in the first place and she was shocked. Telling me she coldn't belive how they treated me. So I said, I will not come for about two weeks but I'll come later when I'm not angry. About 2 weeks later I get a text message from one of the church leaders asking me why she hasn't seen me in such a while. So thinking she had good intentions I told her what happened. Then she started to tell me that the cell group leader was in the right and I was in the wrong and that I needed to repent????? Now why on earth would I go to there assembly if the church leaders are this cold to their members?

Sorry, Blien, I did miss your first post, I guess. I thought I'd read everything, but obviously I hadn't.

I really didn't want to try to make you feel bad. As I said, I certainly know how difficult it can be to find a church home. And you're right to not want to attend a church that is nothing more than a social club, or one where you feel that you cannot trust the leadership. I live out in the middle of nowhere where large churches are pretty much non-existent. There is one, however, but it's just a little too "inclusive" if you know what I mean, so it was never an option for us. I just also know that sometimes we (and I'm including myself in this!) tend to seek some place where we can feel completely and totally content. I just don't think such a place exists, not on this earth. Makes heaven even sweeter, I think. No more seeking and searching and disappointment!

I've only recently begun to hear about the so-called home churches. I know very well that's what the early church did and I have absolutely no problem with that. I think it would be much better if we kept our congregations smaller in number. More personal, more intimate (in a purely innocent way of course! ) As much as I miss being part of a choir, I don't see how I'd ever be happy in one of those mega churches that have become so popular these days. There's no way it can be truly personal when there are thousands of people. You can't possibly know everyone. I know God moves and causes His church to grow, but I think once it reaches a point where the congregation becomes so large that it becomes impersonal then it's time for a voluntary split.

Anyway, the idea of home church groups is kinda appealing to me. If there ever comes a time when I have to leave my current church, I think I'd like to look around for something like that.

Blessings to you, and prayers that God gives you the church home you seek!

[winsomebulldog]

I get what you mean. I can totally relate...

Something that was hard for me to get over was the fact that, our expectations of Christians should not be any different from the world. I know this is real sick.. but seriously, its best if we don't look at others but focused more on ourselves to improve our walk and to examine our motives.

Thank you for sharing. This is comforting.

Secondly Christians are not perfect. I am not. You are not. You say that that church you were at was abusive - does that mean they were physically , sexually , or verbally abusive? If what you mean is they had a set of doctrines that you disagree with then you have every right to leave, but I wouldn't consider that abusive.

Thirdly sometimes God doesn't want us to pray - sometimes he wants to talk to us but we are too busy talking to listen. Meditation is sitting silently clearing our mind, breathing and listening. He will fill you with peace.

CS thanks. i just want to let you know that when I said abusive, I mean abusive. I am not trying to be the holier-than-thou person here.

I dont want to get into details, but anyone who has been through sleep deprivation and collective water-only fasts, public humiliation, the listing of your sins on the pulpit during the Sunday service, and the sneaky reporting of everything you do the church leadership will understand what I have been through.

So, yes, it is not me being a spoilt brat and finicky with churches. It is me trying to recover from serious hurt.

There are tons of books written on Abusive Churches.... and Spiritual Abuse. Just so you see for yourself I am not making things up. Thanks.

Hey 2Christ -

I can relate to your feelings in a lot of ways.

I was in a fellowship that seemed to have been above all others in experiencing God, and it turned out to be cultist. It took me years to recover from that

(and I'd been a Christian my entire life!). I am speculating there were a lot of lies fed into your soul that haven't been weeded out yet, and they are poisoning your system. (That's one of the things I had to deal with.)

Later on I had to leave the church I had since joined to because of some things going on (long story). Again, it's been taking me years to recover. I hadn't been a member of a church for a long time after leaving. It was lonely not having the physical spiritual fellowship. But in some ways it was beneficial to be so separated (another long story).

I don't have the time to go through all the things I could tell you. But for now I just want to encourage you with this -

The best place to find the Lord is in the desert. You can read this in Scripture - the Lord is always taking His people into the desert to draw nearer to Him. On the outset, this seems harsh - deserts are dry and hot (and cold at night often) and barren. I plead many a tear for the Lord to get me out of the desert. But eventually things changed. I began to see beauty in the desert. It became easier for me to find and recognize watering holes, wells, and other sources of water. I found out how to glean food from the resources available. (This is all spiritually speaking, of course.)

That is my encouragement to you - do not be frightened! Trust that the Lord has you in the palm of His hand and isn't letting you go.

One thing you can do about the feeling of steel you have is to pray something like:

"If this is physical, Lord please heal it.

If this is of the enemy, please rebuke it.

If this is of You, Lord please bless it."

Some people feel physical manifestations of spiritual things. Sometimes it means the Lord means for you to intercede for something or someone; so you can ask the Lord to reveal to you if there is something He wants you to pray for.

Prayers and blessings!

Nebula: THANKS. You saw right away where I am coming from. It is good to know that I am not losing my mind and also that the process of recovering takes a while. I praise the Lord for His promises.

God bless you all and also South and or'el for your comforting words.

2Christ,

Sorry for getting off track with Blien and our discussion about going to church. I wanted to concur with what nebula and the others have said. Once you've been hurt by a church, it can take a long time to heal and to be fully restored. It helps tremendously if you can find another church that is walking in the will of the Lord, but sometimes that isn't easy or even possible. In that case, you just continue to seek the Lord, even when you feel that you can't. He knows your heart, He knows what you have endured and what you need. Even if you are in a place spiritually where you cannot bring yourself to utter a prayer, God's Spirit within you will speak to God on your behalf. God will never, ever forsake or leave you!

You most certainly are NOT losing your mind, dear one! Just give God time to heal your heart and continue to trust in Him. He will guide you out of the darkness and pain and back into His glorious light! Be encouraged!

And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don

[Fez]

We have all been where you are to one degree or another.

I won't get all spiritual with you about it. But I know that dry and empty place you are in right now. Horrible place to be.

Sometimes even in my church, which I love, I come out after a meeting and think "what was that all about?", what was I even doing there?

When I was going through what you are (in a bad personal place) a few years back, I just put my head down, shouldered the yoke (which believe me, felt oh so heavy), and just plodded along. It took two years, but everything is wonderful now.

So the only advice I can give is that this too will pass, and one day be a distant memory.

Oh, and South gave me this scripture, and when I can't seem to pray, I just worship.......

Hab 3:17 Though the fig tree should not blossom, nor fruit be on the vines, the produce of the olive fail and the fields yield no food, the flock be cut off from the fold and there be no herd in the stalls,

Hab 3:18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD; I will take joy in the God of my salvation.

Hab 3:19 GOD, the Lord, is my strength; he makes my feet like the deer's; he makes me tread on my high places.

Blessings, you are Loved!

[LeonaWithHumility]

I can't quote perfectly the scriptures yet, but I seem to remember somewhere reading that "when 2 or more gather to pray in Jesus' name" it is absolutely considered a Church. Which makes this board a bona fide church.

If you've had a bad experience with a church, pray with us for a while. Then, when you are feeling better about things, try going back to a church. But you should try to have no preconceived notions about the people or the church itself. Keep your heart and mind open and you'll find what you need.

[nebula]

Nebula: THANKS. You saw right away where I am coming from. It is good to know that I am not losing my mind and also that the process of recovering takes a while. I praise the Lord for His promises.

God bless you all and also South and or'el for your comforting words.

Maybe some day, your exerience will enable you to help someone else, too.

[Leonard]

Friend, I would urge you to look for a church affiliated with the ANGLICAN MISSION IN AMERICA (AMIA) or the CHARISMATIC EPISCOPAL CHURCH (CEC). I have found the clergy and people of both these denominations to be very fine folks.

Also you might read THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL, written 800 years ago or so.

[Axxman]

I just want you to know that I will pray for you! We all have various struggles in Christianity. I've learned in those times to focus more on the "Christ" part...and leave the "ianity" alone.