Was AD 70 the Parousia?

[PGA]

Hi Roy,

To continue with your last post to me:

Regardless, 40 years is NOT a hard and fast rule for how long a generation is. It just was THAT generation's length of time. Frankly, it was a 40-year time of testing and trials. Numbers 1:46 said that there were 603,550 men of fighting age within Isra'el's ranks. THESE men were supposed to proceed into the Promised Land and allow God to work through them to conquer the Land. Instead, they balked from fear, and God said they would wander in the wilderness for 40 years until that generation was all DEAD (except for 2)! That means that they were dying at 15,089/year on average! That's 42 a day on average, and that's not counting the Levites or the men who were older than fighting age or any of the women who died during the time! They were spending all their time mourning and burying their dead! –Roy

I’m not following your analogy Roy. Can you explain it more? What do you mean by,

‘That means that they were dying at 15,089/year on average! That's 42 a day on average, and that's not counting the Levites or the men who were older than fighting age or any of the women who died during the time!’

You will not find anywhere in Scripture where it says "a man lived 40 years and gave birth to a son who lived 40 years and gave birth to a son who lived 40 years and...." Furthermore, compare Matthew's account of Yeshua`s lineage (I believe, through Yosef) against the actual list of kings of Y'hudah (Judah) in either 1 and 2 Kings or 1 and 2 Chronicles. You will find that they DO NOT MATCH! There are "generations" that are SKIPPED! Did Matittyahu (Matthew) make a mistake? Was he fibbing? Was he juggling the numbers to make them fit? I don't believe any of that is true. I believe that we simply don't have the right definition of what a "generation" is. –Roy

God classified that generation that died in the desert as a generation that lived 40 years, then judgment, just like the author of Hebrews said that this generation that he was writing to TODAY were in danger of missing that rest if they rejected the greater/better covenant that was sealed in the blood of Christ. Jesus made it an issue when speaking to OT Israel that ‘this generation’ was the one He was addressing, the same generation that was guilty of shedding all the blood of the prophets and saints that has been shed on the earth from the time of Abel to Zachariah, as well as the blood of the apostles and teachers He would send.

If you will check the lists carefully, you will find that a generation is a time period that only changed when God's assessment of the individuals who reigned changed. In other words, if a person was said to do "what was right in God's eyes," when the last person was said to do "what was evil in God's eyes," then the "generation" changed, and the opposite is also true. If a person was said to do "what was evil in God's eyes," when the last person was said to do "what was right in God's eyes," then the "generation" changed. I believe this explains why some people were skipped. They were still in that "generation" because both their predecessor and their successor had the same assessment. –Roy

Hebrews 3-4, I believe, is talking of a specific generation and a specific time period – 40 years, just as I believe the time period in the desert when they disobeyed God and did not enter the Promised Land was 40 years. The Promised Land they were now (during the time of this author’s writing) in danger of missing was the New Mountain upon which a better covenant was given, the New Heavens and Earth, the New City, the New Jerusalem, the New Israel of God, the New Covenant.

So regardless of what time span God gives a generation to be, whether hundreds of years as per Adam and the great patriarchs or 70 years during the time at the end of the Flood or 40 years during the wanderings in the desert, He is being specific in this instance of what He means.

I think you miss the boat on this one Roy. How can we be subjects of a kingdom that does not exist and a Christ who does not reign? Does Christ reign in your heart, your life? If He does not then how can He be Lord?

http://www.eschatolo...eternal-kingdom -Me

Don't get all "super-spiritual" on me. I don't respond well to someone who has the gall to question my relationship with YHWH and His Son, Yeshua`. Yeshua` does NOT truly reign in my "heart" (the "core" of my thinking) because, first, He is never said to reign there, and second, He is not physically here to reign. HOWEVER, I am still His SLAVE (Greek: doulos) and since "Lord" means "Master," then He can EASILY still be my Master, despite His absence. And, as I said, I can CONSIDER myself His subject prematurely, again despite His absence, and I will respond to Him and His wishes as a subject! I am just 100% convinced that He will REIGN INDEED, LITERALLY, PHYSICALLY, ABSOLUTELY from His father David's throne in Isra'el, just as He was foretold to do! –Roy

I’m using a hypothetical to bring the question to mind Roy, not questioning your relationship with the Lord. It is not mine to judge whom God saves. I’m asking how Jesus can be Lord if He is not reigning in a person’s life. If He reigns in our lives then has His kingdom not come upon us?

...

I don't see this futurist view in the writings of the apostles although I know it was present with some of the early church fathers, but what do the Scriptures say. Regarding Darby and Scofield, I believe that they were the ones who made the view popular and that by taking Daniel 9:24-27 out of context along with many other Scriptures. –Me

Actually, Darby and Scofield perpetuated the pretribulational rapturist's point of view and that often includes a dispensational point of view, as well, but that is NOT when futurism or premillennialism began. The apostles EXPECTED HIM TO RETURN LITERALLY AND PHYSICALLY! That is seen in the Scriptures over and over again! –Roy

I don’t believe the apostles did expect a physical, literal return. I believe they understood how God appeared in the Tanach, especially when Jesus said He would appear in like manner that the Father appeared (Matthew 16:27) and I believe they actually taught a soon to be coming. This has been demonstrated and can be demonstrated again, in every epistle/letter as well as in the Gospels.

Peter

[PGA]

Hi Danielzk,

After having explained some of the passages you refer to and asking questions about them you ignore and fail to address them.

Please see my last three to four posts.

You seem to be misunderstanding the meaning of

millennium it is not a reference to when scripture says that a day is like a thousand years ,, not the same topic at all ,

in order to know when the millennium has begun you need to understand what things will be happening on earth during that particular time period that is being refferred to as Christ reigning for a thousand years,,,even thoughit has been brought to your attention many tims you simply continue to ignore any and all scripture that defeats your misunderstanding -Danielzk

I just fail to see that the 1,000 years is the same time period that you see it as. You are looking for a literal, to the word fulfillment of these prophecies.

Daniel 2

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people -Danielzk

Exactly the point. Which kings? The kings during the kingdom of the fourth beast. I believe that evidence shows that this period has been fulfilled already.

Isaiah 11....-Danielzk

I've already discussed this along with Zechariah 10-14 and Micah 4.

This has to happen before the millennium can begin and it has not yet happend -Danielzk

I believe the period has already expired.

Isaiah 65

²⁰ There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

²⁵ The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord. -Danielzk

To complex to get into now since I work this evening.

]Revelation 20

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

you will only understand the truth when you choose to accept ALL scripture ,, you have been taught a false understanding

the millennium is a specifuc time period of 1000 years when these things are happening and Christ is on earth and we are ruling with him and during that specofic 1000 years satan is bound in chains in the pit and NOT able to deceive nations until the 1000 years are over ,,,Not yet happend,,...unforunately you refuse all scripture when it defeats your ideas -Danierlzk

It depends how you look at it in light of Scripture. Did Jesus defeat death and Satan?

Romans 16:20

New International Version (NIV)

²⁰ The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Paul addresses his epistle 'To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.' (1:7)

Is he telling them or us, 20 plus centuries removed, that Satan will soon be crushed?

Zechariah 14

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure. -Danielzk

Hebrews 12:18-29

New International Version (NIV)

The Mountain of Fear and the Mountain of Joy

¹⁸ You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; ¹⁹ to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, ²⁰ because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”^[a]21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”^[b]

²² But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, ²³ to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, ²⁴ to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

²⁵ See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? ²⁶ At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”^[c]27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

²⁸ Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, ²⁹ for our “God is a consuming fire.”^[d]

Footnotes:

1. Hebrews 12:20 Exodus 19:12,13
   
2. Hebrews 12:21 See Deut. 9:19.
   
3. Hebrews 12:26 Haggai 2:6
   
4. Hebrews 12:29 Deut. 4:24
   

The heaven and the earth of the OT were shaken so that what remains is a new and better covenant. There is a difference between Mount Sinai and Mount Zion. If you don't believe that then why are you living as though Jesus already makes the difference? If Jesus has not accomplished all the works of God that He came to complete then there are some works that you need to accomplish in your own merit. I don't think you believe that some of your works will merit God's favor outside of Christ, do you?

Peter

[PGA]

PS Danielzk, the Jerusalem that is above is secure!

[PGA]

Hi Danielzk,

Sorry to take so long in responding. The company I work for has announced it is closing its operations in Canada last month, so I'm trying to sort this all out.

I’ve include questions I'm looking for a response from you in blue.

Have you ever considered the depth of implications of the new covenant spoken of over and over again in the NT in relation and contrast to the OT? I’ll give you a sample below after I briefly answer some of your biblical passages.

I've been through Zechariah 14, so, for the most part I would direct you to past comments.

Zechariah 14

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure. –Danielzk

Jerusalem above is secure, it has the light of God as its light, it will never again be destroyed and I believe that day refers to the day of God's wrath and judgment on OT Israel that happened in A.D. 70 that sealed and brought in the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Jesus said to His first century disciples that He went to prepare a place for them and that He would come back and take them to be with Him in the place - the New Jerusalem, the heavenly city, the better country, a heavenly one in the New Covenant (Hebrews 11:15). He said not one stone would be left upon another.

Daniel 2

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people -Danielzk

Exactly the point. Which kings? The kings during the kingdom of the fourth beast. I believe that evidence shows that this period has been fulfilled already. -Me

You see, how you interpret which kings will also determine how you answer Daniel 2.

Revelation 20

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

you will only understand the truth when you choose to accept ALL scripture ,, you have been taught a false understanding

the millennium is a specifuc time period of 1000 years when these things are happening and Christ is on earth and we are ruling with him and during that specofic 1000 years satan is bound in chains in the pit and NOT able to deceive nations until the 1000 years are over ,,,Not yet happend,,...unforunately you refuse all scripture when it defeats your ideas -Danierlzk

It depends how you look at it in light of Scripture. Did Jesus defeat death and Satan?

Romans 16:20

New International Version (NIV)

²⁰ The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Paul addresses his epistle 'To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.' (1:7)

Is he telling them or us, 20 plus centuries removed, that Satan will soon be crushed? -Me

How these questions are answered could have frightful implications on a person’s theology for if Jesus has not conquered Satan, death and sin then He has not won the victory over them (and the question becomes when will this happen? – the very question I believe the Bible answered as being in the first century).

Hebrews 2:14-15

New International Version (NIV)

¹⁴ Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— ¹⁵ and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

Are you saying this has not taken place yet? Are we not free? Has He not broken the power of Satan and death?

Hebrews 2:15

New International Version (NIV)

¹⁵ and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

Daniel 9:24-27

New International Version (NIV)

²⁴ “Seventy ‘sevens’^[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish^[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.^[c]

²⁵ “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,^[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. ²⁶ After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.^[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. ²⁷ He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’^[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’^[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple^[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.^[i]”^[j]

Footnotes:

1. Daniel 9:24 Or ‘weeks’; also in verses 25 and 26
   
2. Daniel 9:24 Or restrain
   
3. Daniel 9:24 Or the most holy One
   
4. Daniel 9:25 Or an anointed one; also in verse 26
   
5. Daniel 9:26 Or death and will have no one; or death, but not for himself
   
6. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
7. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
8. Daniel 9:27 Septuagint and Theodotion; Hebrew wing
   
9. Daniel 9:27 Or it
   
10. Daniel 9:27 Or And one who causes desolation will come upon the wing of the abominable temple, until the end that is decreed is poured out on the desolated city
    

When Daniel said that seventy weeks are determine for God's people to 1) finish transgressions, 2) put an end to sin, 3) atone for wickedness, 4) bring in an everlasting righteousness and, 5) anoint the most holy One or place, how is this seventy weeks extended into over two thousand years?

God promised seventy weeks of years to fulfill the prophecies of the Old Covenant people. That is what was determined for His people. How/why are you inserting a gap of over two thousand years when none is revealed into these seventy years? SEVENTY weeks are determined for His people, seventy. What did Jesus come to do? He came to save His people, to provide a ransom, to atone for their sins and wickedness and bring in an everlasting righteousness by fulfilling all God's righteous standards and meeting the Law. Did He accomplish this or did He fail?

Here is the answer I see the Bible speaking of.

Hebrews 9:24-28

New International Version (NIV)

²⁴ For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. ²⁵ Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. ²⁶ Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. ²⁷ Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, ²⁸ so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Did you get that? He did away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Again the question – Did He accomplish what Daniel 9:24 said God would do in the Messiah?

The typology of the Old Covenant looked forward to the new and to the ultimate sacrifice for sin that could not be accomplished by the old covenant (Hebrews 9:23 and Hebrews 8:5 – please read to familiarize yourself).

When you look at the old covenant priest in comparison to Christ you see the High Priest entering the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement for his people. He represented them before God. He made the sacrifice of atonement for them, entered the Most Holy Place and then returned once God had accepted the sacrifice. In Christ we see this new High Priest that meets our needs, but we have not seen His return from the Most Holy Place up to this point, the time the author wrote Hebrews. According to Hebrews 10:12-13, this High Priest was seated at the right hand of God in heaven [i.e. in the Most Holy Place], until His enemies are made a footstool. Who are those enemies?

To my understanding the enemies are this stiff-necked people, Satan, death, etc.

So once He offers Himself, the sacrifice and sprinkles His blood in the true tabernacle in heaven, where do you see Him coming out of the tabernacle to signify that God was pleased with the sacrifice? You see it in A.D. 70. That is when you see it.

Hebrews 9:28

New International Version (NIV)

²⁸ so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The missing ingredient was for Him to appear again? You are still waiting for this appearing.

Notice we see the same pattern as in the old covenant – the priest, the sacrifice presented before God and then we are told that Christ is seated in heaven waiting for His enemies to be made a footstool. But where do you see Christ coming out of the tabernacle?

Hebrews 7:23-28

New International Version (NIV)

²³ Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; ²⁴ but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. ²⁵ Therefore he is able to save completely^[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

²⁶ Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. ²⁷ Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. ²⁸ For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

So here we have the atonement for sin spoken of in Daniel 9:24. We also have the One who is holy, blameless, and pure – the righteous One who bought in everlasting righteousness for His people.

A.D. 70. was the sign to show that God had accepted the sacrifice (see Hebrews 9:25-29 again above). Notice that this Scripture places Christ in heaven in the Most Holy Place already. Noticed His appearing in heaven is at the end of the ages to do away with sin. Has His sacrifice put an end to sin for His people? Notice also that He will appear a second time, not to bear sin [for this has already been done] but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. We see this ‘waiting patiently for Him’ during the first century time these epistles were written as they, the early church, wait patiently, with much suffering for the promise of His coming.

Notice also that Daniel 9:24 also required the people and city to finish transgression. This was completed in A.D. 70 when the city and temple were destroyed and the people scattered throughout the known world of that time (see Luke 21:20-23).

Notice also the warning in Hebrews about this coming judgment:

Hebrews 10:26-31

New International Version (NIV)

²⁶ If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, ²⁷ but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. ²⁸ Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. ²⁹ How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? ³⁰ For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”^[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”^{[b] 31} It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Footnotes:

1. Hebrews 10:30 Deut. 32:35
   
2. Hebrews 10:30 Deut. 32:36; Psalm 135:14
   

The sacrifice and atonement were made at the cross but not put into full effect until the Old

Covenant was totally done away with the judgment (and salvation for those waiting) of this people (Hebrews 8:13).

Judgment came in A.D 70.

Salvation came in A.D. 70.

Verification that God was pleased with Christ’s sacrifice came in A.D. 70 when it was shown to this people that the High Priest (Jesus) came out of the Most Holy Place to confirm to the people the sacrifice was acceptable before God. You have the same pattern that was required in the old covenant being established with the new with the High Priest – he represents the people before God as he goes before the throne of God to offer sacrifice and if the sacrifice is acceptable he emerges from the Most Holy Place to confirm that God had accepted the sacrifice. You can’t stop the atonement process at the cross, because the completion of the atonement was with the coming out of the Holy of Holies of the High Priest before the people to confirm the acceptability of the sacrifice to the people that had been offered to God. The old covenant sacrifice was a covering/offering to ‘put away the sins of the people’ until the next Day of Atonement in which the process would be offered up one again. Jesus came as a better sacrifice to offer Himself once for the putting away of sin. Did He do this? If He did then He came out of the Holy of Holies to show the sacrifice was acceptable. Where do you see this as happening?

I believe also in our talking of Satan that Satan was crushed at the cross, was imprisoned during the time of that generation then released during the three and one half years, the one in which God brought judgment on, before being thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Peter

[PGA]

Hi Danielzk, Roy,

Sorry, there have been many significant events happening in my life lately. I still want to reply to both your latest posts. Hopefully this will happen in the next few weeks.

Peter

[Montana Marv]

This scripture is speaking of a very specific period of time in years as it is NOT a language but used as a very specific length of time in years as the age of people during that generation are as they were in Methuselah and Noah time

I agree that the "thousand" years is not infinite. If it were, the Bible would use different language. The issue is if a thousand years is literally a thousand years. As far as I can tell, "thousand" is used frequently in non-literal fashion for amounts far in access of a thousand, in the Bible. And, Revelation is the most non-literal book of the Bible. Another point to consider, as far as I can tell, "thousand" is the largest named number in the Bible. This would contribute to its non-literal usage for unspecified larger numbers.

I wouldn't argue from immediate context that a thousand means anything other than a thousand, but I don't think it can be insisted that a thousand must mean a thousand.

E

Rev 9:16 - The number of the mounted troops was 200 million. I heard their number. or (200 thousand thousand) Very literal 200,000,000. This equates to what China has with all their military reserves, and this in the 1970's.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[PGA]

Hi Danielzk,

For the most part I feel you did not answer my questions highlighted in blue. If your theology of a thousand years is shown by Scripture to have been fulfilled in the first century then the thousand years that you are taking as a literal 1000 years needs to be looked at in a different light or possibly in an alternative way, such as that the 1000 years started in B.C. thus ending in A.D. 70.

Sadly you miss the most important points PGA,,,, Yes Jesus DID Defeat death when he rose from the dead! death has been defeated,,

but the natural course of the LORDS plan set in motion will still be carried out as it was put forth ..meaning that whosoever Chooses to follow Christ and be born again will have defeated death at the time their mortal body dies or the Harpazo takes place .. when all scripture has been fulfilled ,,then death will be thrown into the lake of fire and never face people again ,

Revelation 20:3

New International Version (NIV)

³ He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Revelation 20:3

King James Version (KJV)

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. –Danielzk

The fact is that after Jesus purged our sins He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Hebrews 1:3c). The Levitical priest could never sit down in the presence of majesty for his duties were never finished (the sacrifice had to keep being offered over and over again and the priest never entered heaven itself but a shadow of it, so he never rested) but the one sacrifice Jesus offered was sufficient. So since that one sacrifice was sufficient then Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled.

Also 70 weeks of years does not mean thousands of years. God did not say a period of seventy years broken up because Israel failed to welcome the kingdom, thus a change of plans to God’s ‘B’ option - as if we could thwart God’s plans.

See Hebrews 9:16-18, 9:26, 28; 10:1-2, 10:10, 10:12-18 and especially 19-22, 10:29, 10:30-31, 10:35-38.

Let’s go back to Daniel 9:24-27

Daniel 9:24-27

New International Version (NIV)

²⁴ “Seventy ‘sevens’^[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish^[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.^[c]

²⁵ “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,^[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. ²⁶ After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.^[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. ²⁷ He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’^[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’^[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple^[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.^[i]”^[j]

Footnotes:

1. Daniel 9:24 Or ‘weeks’; also in verses 25 and 26
   
2. Daniel 9:24 Or restrain
   
3. Daniel 9:24 Or the most holy One
   
4. Daniel 9:25 Or an anointed one; also in verse 26
   
5. Daniel 9:26 Or death and will have no one; or death, but not for himself
   
6. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
7. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
8. Daniel 9:27 Septuagint and Theodotion; Hebrew wing
   
9. Daniel 9:27 Or it
   
10. Daniel 9:27 Or And one who causes desolation will come upon the wing of the abominable temple, until the end that is decreed is poured out on the desolated city
    

Notice again verse 24. There were only seventy sevens decreed for Daniels people to a) finish transgressing, b) put an end to sin, c) atone for wickedness, d) bring in everlasting righteousness, and e) seal up vision and prophesy and anoint the Most Holy One or Most Holy Place. The finishing of transgressions, atoning for wickedness, and bringing in everlasting righteousness had to all happen in the span of the seventy weeks for that was what was determined for this people – Daniels people.

If you are trying to interpret everything as literal then why don’t you apply the same kind of hermeneutic here? Seventy weeks are determined for your people.

Now let’s go back to Hebrews and examine each one of these specifics that are mentioned in Daniel 9:24 as well as the destruction of the temple and city. Remember that Daniel said in the middle of the seven ‘he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.’

There are a number of ways to look upon this ‘putting an end to sacrifice and offering’, including separating the weeks into the far off future in order for this to be accomplished, but what works best? Jesus’ sacrifice was a once for all time sacrifice with the sacrifice and offering of Himself that was acceptable to the Father so it put an end to sacrifice and offering, but to put it into effect fully the old would have to disappear so that the people would realize the only offering for sin that was acceptable was Jesus. This happened in A.D. 70 when the Old Covenant was obliterated (Matthew 5:17-18)

Remember, the Holy Spirit testified to them back in the first century, saying:

Hebrews 10:16

New International Version (NIV)

¹⁶ “This is the covenant I will make with them

after that time, says the Lord.

I will put my laws in their hearts,

and I will write them on their minds.”^[a]

Footnotes:

1. Hebrews 10:16 Jer. 31:33
   

After what time? After the one sacrifice, then Hebrews 10 went on to show how, in context, the verse is addressing 1^st century believers. Did He not write His laws on their hearts and minds? He also reminds them not to give up meeting together, but doing so even more as they see the Day approaching. Then He warns them how much more sever the punishment will be for those who reject and trample the Son of God and the blood of this new covenant – Hebrews 10:29. Finally the author of Hebrews reminds them not to throw away their confidence, but to persevere to receive what He promised for in ‘just a very little while’ He who is coming will come and will not delay. Then the author finishes, ‘But we are not of those who shrink back…but of those who believe and are saved’).

Daniel 12:2 has exactly the same themes of Daniel 9:24-27 as well as contained in the book of Hebrews:

Daniel 12:1-13

New International Version (NIV)

The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. ² Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. ³ Those who are wise^[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. ⁴ But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

⁵ Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. ⁶ One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

⁷ The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.^[b] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

⁸ I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

⁹ He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. ¹⁰ Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

¹¹ “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. ¹² Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

¹³ “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

Footnotes:

1. Daniel 12:3 Or who impart wisdom
   
2. Daniel 12:7 Or a year, two years and half a year
   

The power of the holy people was their relationship with God and the covenant they had made with Him.

The Priest (Jesus) was coming, coming out of the Holy of Holies, coming to bring salvation to His people, also coming to judge this unbelieving, stiff-necked people – those who rejected Him, that the measure/limit of their sin would be made complete in that – that - generation. This happened in A.D. 70.

Peter

[ENOCH2010]

Peter when was that resurrection of the multitudes who slept in the dust of the Earth?

[PGA]

Peter when was that resurrection of the multitudes who slept in the dust of the Earth?

I believe a good case can be made for A.D. 70.

Daniel 9:24-27

New International Version (NIV)

²⁴ “Seventy ‘sevens’^[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish^[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.^[c]

²⁵ “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,^[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. ²⁶ After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.^[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. ²⁷ He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’^[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’^[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple^[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.^[i]”^[j]

Footnotes:

1. Daniel 9:24 Or ‘weeks’; also in verses 25 and 26
   
2. Daniel 9:24 Or restrain
   
3. Daniel 9:24 Or the most holy One
   
4. Daniel 9:25 Or an anointed one; also in verse 26
   
5. Daniel 9:26 Or death and will have no one; or death, but not for himself
   
6. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
7. Daniel 9:27 Or ‘week’
   
8. Daniel 9:27 Septuagint and Theodotion; Hebrew wing
   
9. Daniel 9:27 Or it
   
10. Daniel 9:27 Or And one who causes desolation will come upon the wing of the abominable temple, until the end that is decreed is poured out on the desolated city
    

Try extending Daniel 9:24-27 beyond the first century. Daniel 9 concerns the people of Israel. Seventy sevens were decreed for Daniel's people and the holy city to 1) finish transgression, 2) put an end to sin, 3) atone for wickedness, 4) bring in everlasting righteousness, 5) seal up prophecy and 6) anoint the Most Holy Place/Most Holy One. Did Jesus fail to do all of this in the seventy weeks decreed?

Israel of God, the true Israel, was rescued/resurrected from the dead in A.D. 70 while apostate Israel finished transgression and their city and temple, their old covenant world came to an end - the end of the age of the old covenant. When the High Priest went into the temple/tabernacle to present the sacrifice of atonement for the people, it was not until he came out of the temple/tabernacle that the people knew the sacrifice had been acceptable to God. Jesus the Messiah met the righteous requirements of God on the cross but it was not until He came out of the sanctuary that the people knew the offering had been accepted.

Matthew 26:62-64

New International Version (NIV)

⁶² Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” ⁶³ But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

⁶⁴ “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Who does the 'you will see' refer to?

'Coming on the clouds of heaven' is a reference to judgment used many times in the OT. I think this point can be argued effectively.

Jesus went to the true tabernacle when He went to be with the Father in heaven and presented His offering of Himself as the sacrifice and He came back in A.D. 70 to put His enemies under His foot - apostate Israel who persecuted His church, His people. I think that the High Priest and Sanhedrin and all the people of Israel would understand who Jesus was in A.D. 70 when He came out of the heavenly sanctuary in judgment of them. That generation would answer to Him. Much more can be said on this.

Hebrews 7:26-8:13

New International Version (NIV)

²⁶ Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. ²⁷ Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. ²⁸ For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

The High Priest of a New Covenant

8 Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, ² and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.

³ Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. ⁴ If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. ⁵ They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”^[a]6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

⁷ For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ⁸ But God found fault with the people and said^[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,

when I will make a new covenant

with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.

⁹ It will not be like the covenant

I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of Egypt,

because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,

and I turned away from them,

declares the Lord.

¹⁰ This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel

after that time, declares the Lord.

I will put my laws in their minds

and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people.

¹¹ No longer will they teach their neighbor,

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest.

¹² For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more.”^[c]

¹³ By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Footnotes:

1. Hebrews 8:5 Exodus 25:40
   
2. Hebrews 8:8 Some manuscripts may be translated fault and said to the people.
   
3. Hebrews 8:12 Jer. 31:31-34
   

That covenant that became obsolete, my friend, became obsolete in A.D. 70. That old covenant world was destroyed.

Matthew 5:17-18

New International Version (NIV)

The Fulfillment of the Law

¹⁷ “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. ¹⁸ For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Did Jesus fulfill the Law or the Prophets?

The Law was part and parcel of the Old Covenant. It was the heaven and earth that they, the Jew/Israel of old, live under. Matthew, over and over again tells these Jewish people that this or that which was written had been fulfilled in the gospel attributed to him.

When the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 not every part of the Law could be met. They could no longer offer a sacrifice of atonement for their sins for there was no longer any temple, any priesthood, any sacrifice, and people for they had been scattered throughout the known civilized world of their time. These requirements could no longer be met, therefore either even the smallest letter must have been fulfilled or else the implication is that what Jesus said was a mistake.

Do you see how this all ties in? There are so many Scriptures to take from.

I'm sure you have lots of questions, just like I do, but ask yourself in what sense did Jesus mean when He said heaven and earth would pass away and to whom was He (in context) addressing? Josephus has references to heaven and earth in his writings as referring to the Jewish temple. I can give you the quotes with a little work if you would like them, but the point is that even Josephus, a Jew in the time of the 1st century understood heaven and earth in a different light than most of us do today.

Daniel 12, the case can be made, has all the ingredients of Daniel 9 and includes the resurrection from the dead. The references to the 'time of the end' would again be a reference to the time of the end of the old covenant. Just like Daniel 9, it is a time of Daniel's people. The words of the scroll were sealed until the time of the end, but in Revelation we see Jesus opening the scroll. What is more over and over again the Apostle John kept reminding his 1st century readers of what must soon take place, what is near. There are numerous references in Revelation that come from the OT that would be good to understand, also references that can't apply to anything other than Israel/Jerusalem without twisting the Scripture to say so much more than it actually says. It is primarily concerned with Israel, Israel, Israel; one the Israel of God and the other apostate Israel. There are two women, two Israels, two cities, two peoples, etc, etc, etc. But concerning references in Revelation that can only apply to Israel/Jerusalem, I'll give you one for instance. Babylon the Great/The Great City is none other than Jerusalem. It is the city that is guilty of shedding all the blood of the saints and prophets (Rev. 18:19-20, 24; 19:2; 11:8)

I'll let you digest this.

Peter

[ENOCH2010]

Peter thanks for trying to answer my question,but the answer you gave seems to spiritualize things that are meant to be literal. I believe in a literal second coming of Christ and a literal resurrection of the dead at which time the born again will receive literal immortal bodies to rule and reign with the Lord.