so wrong

[2Joyful]

We can only hope and pray that the children really are brought up in a bible teaching church. The parents are a bad role model for christian behavior, but never under estimate the power of the Holy Spirit.

I agree, many of "US" were not raised in Christian households, or even attend church at one point of our lives. Many of "US" were born into Christian homes, yet chose to rebel. Yet God enabled us to receive His word. It had nothing to do with what we knew or didn't. It came down to humbling ourselves and accepting Jesus as our "OWN" personal Savior, if He got the truth and word to us, He will do the same not only for the children, but to those men. Thats the great thing about God, He gave each of us free-will, and always got the truth to us, all He asked was for all to make a decision on whom to believe.

I pray that they shall receive the truth, turning what the devil meant evil, accepting Jesus will turn it into good.

[ladypeartree]

[MorningGlory]

<!--quoteo(post=1575624:date=Jul 3 2010, 05:03 AM:name=HIS girl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HIS girl @ Jul 3 2010, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1575624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scratching my head and wondering what "As a Chrsitian family ...." means to them.....

Christian by what definition?

Certainly not followers of <b>Christ Jesus</b>.....

They want their "kids" to make their own choices regarding religion, yet being "mothered" has been denied them - which is a basic right of all human beings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The only good I can see here is that, for the children, it's better to be christened than not.

Paedobaptism is not Christian doctrine and has historically been rejected by Christians all down through the centuries. The CoE (Church of England) had erred from the truth. It is a false doctrine that trys to teach the child he/she is OK and no in need of the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. All I know in the UK that are Christians are not in the CoE; although many were in for a long time but as they read the Bible and studied and prayed, the came out and denounced their ways.

Does anyone really think that the Bible teaches homosexuality is OK and that through their un-natural acts should have children in their care?

No! At least no one I know.

[David of Derby]

You know at least one British Christian in the Church of England...

Do any of you people rushing to judge and condemn these two gay men actually know any gay people? Have any of you got the slightest idea what it's like for them? While you're thinking about that, think about this as well: did any of you (presumably) heterosexual people choose to be that way? Did you, at any time of your life, make a conscious decision to be sexually attracted to adult members of the opposite sex? I know I didn't. I know it was considered normal and essentially expected of me, but I never actually decided to be heterosexual. I just am. I was born this way.

Now, I do know some gay people - and I know for a fact that they never chose to be gay. They just are. They were born that way.

Since we're all Christians here, we surely accept that God makes each person as He sees fit, and that only He ordains when a life will be created. Without His spark no attempt at conception can be successful. So I ask you, in light of that certain knowledge - why are people gay? Is a gay person any less the creation of God, the expression of His Will? None of us choose our parents or families, or places or times of birth, God chooses those things for us and we can only bow to His command. So surely God has created that gay person, as He has created everyone else?

For a gay person to try to be straight is like a man trying to be a woman - they cannot do it. They can't deny what they are. Apart from fundamentalists and right-wing extremists, every Christian church in the world now accepts gay people, and considers the Old Testament proscription against homosexuality to be representative of ancient prejudice rather than the Word of God. It might not be them that's wrong, you realise? Not every conflicting doctrine or tradition can be correct.

Even if none of that mattered, I believe there's something in the Bible about not judging others, lest ye thyself be judged. It's been a while since I read one of the Gospel stories in its entirety, but I don't recall Jesus going around condemning people. Even crooked tax collectors and prostitutes were accepted by Him. How is it Christ-like to condemn these two for wanting children? Maybe they shouldn't have them Christened, but there are arguments against anyone doing that, gay or otherwise. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge, and quicker to accept others.

[ladypeartree]

YES I do know many people who are homosexual..my next door neighbour is one of the nicest people that I know and I DONT condemn him for his sexual preferences just as I dont condem anyone who choses to have ANY sexual relationship before marriage BUT I also know several people who were brought up by homosexual parents and how much it hurt them when others had a mum and a dad and they had two people that they loved but were confused about.

If you do not believe the bible because it is not to your liking then how can you call yourself a follower of Christ ??

We are called to belief in ALL the bible NOT just in the bits that make us feel good.

[David of Derby]

YES I do know many people who are homosexual..my next door neighbour is one of the nicest people that I know and I DONT condemn him for his sexual preferences just as I dont condem anyone who choses to have ANY sexual relationship before marriage BUT I also know several people who were brought up by homosexual parents and how much it hurt them when others had a mum and a dad and they had two people that they loved but were confused about.

If you do not believe the bible because it is not to your liking then how can you call yourself a follower of Christ ??

We are called to belief in ALL the bible NOT just in the bits that make us feel good.

Called to believe in ALL the Bible, eh? So you believe that a wife must submit to her husband at all times, even sexually? Indeed, according to Christianity it's impossible for a husband to rape his wife. The Bible also advocates selling a disobedient daughter into slavery, capital punishment for a variety of crimes and teaches that eating shellfish is an abomination before the Lord. I don't know of any Christian that believes in any of that, but it's all there in Exodus, along with the line about not lying with a man as with a woman.

I genuinely don't understand why half of that stuff is even in moden Bibles, since they've removed all manner of books in the past, some of which have a far more useful message than dietary tips.

Ladypeartree, you personally might not condemn gay people, but a lot of people here were doing so, and apparently denying them the option to ever have a partner, a sexual relationship or any kind of romantic connection. These are pretty basic human desires, yet because a person is born gay, without the ability to choose another way, they just can't ever have that? What are they meant to do, confine themselves to a monastery? Wear hair shirts to mortify the sinful flesh? What is this, the middle ages?

[Guest]

....Since we're all Christians here, we surely accept that God makes each person as He sees fit, and that only He ordains when a life will be created. Without His spark no attempt at conception can be successful. So I ask you, in light of that certain knowledge - why are people gay? Is a gay person any less the creation of God, the expression of His Will? None of us choose our parents or families, or places or times of birth, God chooses those things for us and we can only bow to His command. So surely God has created that gay person, as He has created everyone else?....

Indeed

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

Dear David

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25

There Are Two Ways

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

But Only One Way Leads

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

To Freedom

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:34-36

And Life

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

And Escape

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31-32

Or Stay In Bondage

But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.

So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Psalms 81:11-12

>>>>>()<<<<

Trust

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

God

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Proverbs 3:7-8

Love, Joe

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. Lamentations 3:21-23

[David of Derby]

Another well-reasoned response from FresnoJoe. I sometimes wonder if you're a bot programmed to quote the Bible...

[Guest]

The Bible

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isaiah 55:11

>>>>>()<<<<<

Another well-reasoned response from FresnoJoe. I sometimes wonder if you're a bot programmed to quote the Bible...

Bless You Dear David

I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. Psalms 119:174

>>>>>()<<<<<

David The Trouble With Blaming God For The Sins Of Men

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:14-15

Beloved, There Is NO Sin In God

Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16-17

And To Teach Otherwise

These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jude 1:16

Is Unwise

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7

Truly

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

>>>>>()<<<<<

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

nd thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house,

and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deuteronomy 6:6-7

Now also when I am old and grayheaded,

O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation,

and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

[hayahtowb]

Hi Dave, Joe isn't a bot:

Another well-reasoned response from FresnoJoe. I sometimes wonder if you're a bot programmed to quote the Bible...

Also if he dosn't ..others will!

Edited to say: I agree Joe isn't a bot:

Edited July 16, 2010 by hayahtowb