nebula Posted February 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Then please explain what turning the other cheek and don't resist an evil person means. When you read the passage, it specifically states, "When someone strikes you on the right cheek...." Why would Jesus specify which cheek? If you think about it, the only way to hit someone on the right cheek is with the left hand or the back of the right hand. In their time and culture, striking someone in that way was deemed an insult - worse than giving someone the finger in our culture. So Jesus wasn't speaking about a bully beating you up, or a robber trying to steal from you, or worse. He was speaking about being demeaned, insulted, put down, demoralized, etc. To turn the other cheek wasn't an invitation to be beat up, but a statement declaring - if you strike me, do so with respect! It doesn't sound like Jesus liked violence of any kind. What do you make of Him cleansing the Temple with a scourge and overturned the money changers' tables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor30 Posted February 17, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 382 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 12/31/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2012 Then please explain what turning the other cheek and don't resist an evil person means. When you read the passage, it specifically states, "When someone strikes you on the right cheek...." Why would Jesus specify which cheek? If you think about it, the only way to hit someone on the right cheek is with the left hand or the back of the right hand. In their time and culture, striking someone in that way was deemed an insult - worse than giving someone the finger in our culture. So Jesus wasn't speaking about a bully beating you up, or a robber trying to steal from you, or worse. He was speaking about being demeaned, insulted, put down, demoralized, etc. To turn the other cheek wasn't an invitation to be beat up, but a statement declaring - if you strike me, do so with respect! It doesn't sound like Jesus liked violence of any kind. What do you make of Him cleansing the Temple with a scourge and overturned the money changers' tables? I must admit skepticism on your answer, because I have never heard that explanation before. As far as Jesus cleansing the temple, yes he overturned tableand used a whip, BUT there is no actual mention of him hitting anyone or the whip being used ON someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I must admit skepticism on your answer, because I have never heard that explanation before. You can try seeing if you can research it? As far as Jesus cleansing the temple, yes he overturned tableand used a whip, BUT there is no actual mention of him hitting anyone or the whip being used ON someone. Whatever reason you can imagine for Him having made the scourge (whip), can you imagine overturning tables and yelling at people as being non-violent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted February 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2012 Guns! There is a weekly national show series called, Sons of a Gun (or something like that), that film not for from my house I have watched it many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor30 Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 382 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 12/31/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2012 I must admit skepticism on your answer, because I have never heard that explanation before. You can try seeing if you can research it? As far as Jesus cleansing the temple, yes he overturned tableand used a whip, BUT there is no actual mention of him hitting anyone or the whip being used ON someone. Whatever reason you can imagine for Him having made the scourge (whip), can you imagine overturning tables and yelling at people as being non-violent? I can't honestly say if I will research it as you suggest. As far as the non violence, actually I DO consider it non violent. There is no evidence he ever touched anyone. He likely drove everyone out with his temper. However I DO consider an action Non Violent if no actual touching takes place. So I suppose whether he was violent or not is actually a matter of interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Im going to add my two cents here, I am a gun owner I own multiple guns, and while I am prepared to use one in defense of me or my family, I hope never to do so. Some of my guns are purely for hunting, some are for fun, I have one I carry for self defense, though I hope and pray to never need it. I have seen some really safe people with guns Ive seen some people that shouldnt be allowed within 100 yards of one. . .and yes I realize there are parts of the world where guns are used to kill and create terror, but I want to point out people have been killing people long before there were guns or swords. Cain killed abel with a rock, yet I dont see anyone saying we cant own rocks. Saying guns kill people is like saying pencils misspell words, a gun is a tool, no more, no less, it can be used for good and it can be used for evil, I always say guns dont kill people, people kill people-if every gun in the world were destroyed, people would still find a way to kill each other. Me personally, I am what many call a gun fanatic-I keep guns for hunting, I keep guns for enjoyment, and I keep them for self protection. Would I ever use one on another human being? If it meant saving the life of me my family, or another innocent human being yes I would, but I do hope and pray I never have to. I might point out that even Jesus is not anti-gun. You might say ya there wernt guns then. well in essence you are right they didnt have guns-but they did have swords, which were the guns of the day, at one point he instructed people to buy a sword. . .peter also carried a sword, do you not think that Jesus didnt know about it? seems to me if Jesus had a problem with Peter carrying a sword, then peter would not have had one. Jesus was no warmongeror or violent person-nor am I insinuating He was, but I don't believe he was against us having weapons. Guns are just hunks of metal and wood-that is all. What they are used for, is entirely dependent on the owner. If the owner is evil, then he is going to use it for evil purposes. If the owner is evil, he is going to find a way to do evil things, gun or no gun. But if the gun is in the hands of the rightous, then it will do no evil-it is an inanimate object, a tool, no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks for weighing in Pat. You know the thing that usually bugs me about these kinda debates is the way the pro-gun side would speak with such emotionless about the need to use deadly force to defend themselves. There was a time when I was anti-gun merely because I saw the gun culture as so cold and callous. I've since learned that not many pro-gun people are like that, though a few are still out there. I see zero biblical basis for pacifism, as such I am tolerant of using deadly force in situations where it is necessary, BUT only in the presence of a humble and broken heart, in a person whose whole essence is screaming "I wish I didn't have to do this!" and gets not a single ounce of enjoyment from it. As the Lord says in His Word, "I do not delight in the destruction of the wicked". And neither should any of us. Of couse the pro gun side isn't the only ones to use exaggeration or emotionalism to drive home their point... the anti gun side seems to do it just as much when then fling words like murder around, insinuating that self protection is the action of the devil. I'm rather thankful this debate hasn't gone quite that far but I did want to poke my big nose in and say THANKS to Pat for delivering such a balanced message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 19, 2012 peter also carried a sword, do you not think that Jesus didnt know about it? seems to me if Jesus had a problem with Peter carrying a sword, then peter would not have had one. I never considered that before. Thanks for presenting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ill admit I am pro gun-but I do respect those who dont believe in guns or like them, more so if they respect my stance on them. I will be honest, I used to be one of those "extremists" who was all gung ho like ya Id shoot that fool in a heartbeat if he attacked me. And Lord help those who disagree with me. As Ive growed older though, especially know that I have a family, Ive had to do a lot of soul searching and re-evaluating my believes, and after a lot of prayer and bible study, have come to where I am know. Do I still like guns? yes, they are one of my favorite hobbies-I enjoy shooting, hunting, and collecting them, Ive really enjoyed researching different firearms as well throughout the ages. And if I had to use one of them to protect my family, I know that I could and I would, but for the right reasons-before it was a gung ho thing, know its because I want to protect those I love, and I hope and pray I never have to, and sincerely, don't want to. Yes I keep a loaded gun near my bed at night-but its with the idea of better to have it and never need it (which is what Im hoping for) then to need it and not have it. Now, get me talking about guns and I will discuss them all night-I am passionate about them. I will even debate gun rights and everything else, I enjoy such debates-as long as their in a respectful manner. It doesn't bother me if someone walks up and says hey I disagree with you, and heres why-Ill respect that, I realize not everyone likes guns. If you come into a chat room with me, and Im discussing guns, and you dont want to just ask I have no problem changing subjects. The only thing that ever gets under my skin is when people bash guns and gun owners-theres a difference between disagreeing with someone, and being rude and disrespectful about it. Now with that being said, I have to say this is one of the most civil gun debates I have ever seen, and I respect that-and its good to be in a place where people can show such respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyIMdoc Posted February 21, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/13/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/17/1969 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I have guns for home defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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