The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 oh, I dont argue there arnt other ways to defend yourself and you family, and I dont hold it against anyone who doesnt want to use a gun. I personally see them as a helpful tool as well as a good hobby. On the same note, if we dont want to censor free speech, we also shouldnt censor the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 I wonder what our world would look like if sex, drugs and guns were eliminated from everyday entertainment, like music, movies, TV and books? Who knows? But how would our world look like if every nation loved any other nation? You see, we can ask thousands of questions whose positive answer would make our world better. But most of them are question begging and utopistic, This particular question is utopistic, bacause we cannot remove sex, drugs and violence from the mainstream media. We cannot remove anything from our mainstream media. I am strongly against any form of censorship or freedom of expression, which is pointless anyway in the western world. The problem is: who should decide what is allowed and not? I guess this is the price of freedom; if we are strong enough to take advantage of freedom to progress in the long term than it is ok. If we do not, than it is too bad. But the risk is anyway lower than introducing any form of censorship or thought control. ciao - viole I see the problem with all the exposure is that it hardens the heart. The reason why I asked about the crime stats in Sweden is because here in the US, crime has been made into something people idolize, as in the gangster lifestyle. When sin hardens a person, then the sin has no affect any longer. There is little or no guilt, meaning they will not hear God when He moves them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 oh, I dont argue there arnt other ways to defend yourself and you family, and I dont hold it against anyone who doesnt want to use a gun. I personally see them as a helpful tool as well as a good hobby. On the same note, if we dont want to censor free speech, we also shouldnt censor the ability to protect ourselves with guns. Right, you didn't say that... but it has been said before and just baffles my brain . Like I said, I'm thankful that this discussion is not suffering from the same extremes as similar threads have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 and people automatically assume that people are the only things you have to worry about. I spend a great deal of time out in the wilderness, where a bear or cougar are just as deadly as a gangster, and contrary to public belief pepper spray does not always work. and the chances of growing old in america without a gun? pretty high. but I leave as little to chance as I can-and guns can be an instrument of death, but they can also be an instrument of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd be curious whether there is much of a difference between Christians and atheists in frequency of gun ownership. None of the atheists I know well owns a gun. That would be about seven individuals. Where you live can make difference with this one. I don't know a single Christian in my real life who owns a gun. It's more of a culture thing, than it is a faith thing. Over here, Christians largely view the gun thing as stupid . We had an American pastor come here and chide us for not carrying... he even carried during his sermon. He was boo'd out of the country by Christians and Atheists alike. I'd like to know what part of America he came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd be curious whether there is much of a difference between Christians and atheists in frequency of gun ownership. None of the atheists I know well owns a gun. That would be about seven individuals. Where you live can make difference with this one. I don't know a single Christian in my real life who owns a gun. It's more of a culture thing, than it is a faith thing. Over here, Christians largely view the gun thing as stupid . We had an American pastor come here and chide us for not carrying... he even carried during his sermon. He was boo'd out of the country by Christians and Atheists alike. I'd like to know what part of America he came from? Texas. He was widely mocked here all over the breakfast news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Where you live can make difference with this one. After more than two weeks in north America, I marvel at the diffferences with Europe. Nudity and sex on tv here is totally absent (immoral to show what creates life?), but there are reality shows with people showing how cool it is to try to build the most ingenious fire weapons (moral to show how to destroy life?). In north Europe, it is exactly the opposite. Interesting perspective, but I completely disagree. Gazing at naked bodies and watching sex are not about joying in the creation of life. They are about provoking lust and fulfilling sexual indulgences. Pornography is a bondage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Viole, In Sweden, do you have drive-by shootings, firearm assaults, robbery with a deadly weapon? Here is a link comparing Sweden to the US in crimes. Notice that you have 175% higher rapes then we do in the US. We have 161 times more murders then you. Per 100,000 people, you have 38,005 drug crimes where we have 560.1. We have 9 times more crimes then you, while you have 17% more crime victims than us. I wonder what our world would look like if sex, drugs and guns were eliminated from everyday entertainment, like music, movies, TV and books? Just goes to show that having firearms doesn't necessarily reduce the amount of crime time to dispense that myth. Someone who knows how to look up the statistics ought to check out where the majority of violent crimes take place. I will bet the answer is in the cities. And if one were to find the cause behind the majority of the violent crimes, I bet the answer is street gangs and drugs. If you are unfamiliar with that culture, you should look it up (not sure what the best source is). Or if you are near NY, just drive through the Bronx late at night. (That was tongue-in-cheek. I would never want anyone, especially a female, to do that.) And then there's the invasion of the Mexican drug cartels into southern Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 25, 2012 As for the gun part, I feel a lot of sympathies for people like the Amish. Instruments of death are simply wrong if you believe in God and Jesus. Should you not love your enemies? Is shooting back love? Do not misunderstand me, I would shoot back too (but i am an atheist who does not necessarily loves her enemies), but I am not sure that this is what Jesus meant with showing the other cheek. No, it's Europeans who are "showing" the other cheek. (I'm playing off the other type of cheek.) What Jesus said was "turn" the other cheek. What you need to understand about His words is also that He said, "If someone strikes you on the right cheek...." The reason this is significant is that in order to strike someone on the right cheek, one has to strike with either the back of the right hand or with the left hand. In that time and culture, doing such was considered a demeaning insult, more severe than "giving someone the finger" in our culture. Jesus wasn't speaking about how to deal with violence; rather, how to deal with jerks and being insulted. But as for love - is it love to let a mad-man shoot innocent people? Are you loving your family not to protect them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't know a single Christian in my real life who owns a gun. It's more of a culture thing, than it is a faith thing. Over here, Christians largely view the gun thing as stupid . We had an American pastor come here and chide us for not carrying... he even carried during his sermon. He was boo'd out of the country by Christians and Atheists alike. I'd like to know what part of America he came from? Texas. He was widely mocked here all over the breakfast news. I thought he's be someone from either Texas or the South. Texans are a different breed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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