Zemke Posted January 25, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2012 Very interesting! Thank you. Could we say that Joseph was also a pre-figure/ type... As he was made captive and sold into slavery, so he could later save his brothers who had rejected him from death? It came to mind while reading your presentation. Good observation. Yes, Joseph was a type of what would happen to his descendants, i.e. Joseph was not known by his brethren and was initially perceived to be a "Gentile". To everyone's surprise, he was a son of Israel. This speaks to the end times in Hosea where the house of Israel are known as "not my people" (i.e. nobody, including themselves would recognize themselves as Israelites). Even Jews don't recognize their own brethren, but Hosea then goes on to say that these same people will be called "sons of the Living God". According to the book of John, people who are called thus are Christians. But unbeknownst to many, these are not only the spiritual seed of Abraham, but physical as well just like the Jew. That's where we genealogists try to figure things out. However, like the Jews, the nations (promised to Abraham) of these people will equally be hated. What one has to realize is that the traditional nations and friends (or enemies) of Israel have sometimes migrated and are now known as another people. They don't inhabit the same geographical areas as in bible times and one has to discern who is what these days. I've been taught that typology illuminates doctrine but does not create doctrine. Just a rule to help from going to far as you had mentioned earlier. Joseph also is a type of Jesus in a number of ways but in the area your speaking of we can see that the first time his brothers saw him they didn't recognize him but the second time they saw him he reveled himself to them. As Zacharia says "they looked upon Him who they had pierced." I like the types that can be used in witnessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted January 25, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2012 Staying on the theme of Joseph his brothers found they couldn't kill him and betrayed him into the hands of Gentiles. Interestingly enough it was his brother Judah who came up with the idea and they sold him for twenty shekels of silver. He was wrongly accused and condemned In a place of condemnation he was with two individuals, one given life and the other death Joseph was lifted from a place of condemnation to a place of exaltation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Interestingly enough it was his brother Judah who came up with the idea and they sold him for twenty shekels of silver. And it was Judah who later took the place of Benjamin in Egyptian prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzdy Posted January 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2012 Staying on the theme of Joseph his brothers found they couldn't kill him and betrayed him into the hands of Gentiles. Interestingly enough it was his brother Judah who came up with the idea and they sold him for twenty shekels of silver. He was wrongly accused and condemned In a place of condemnation he was with two individuals, one given life and the other death Joseph was lifted from a place of condemnation to a place of exaltation. And it was all part of His plan when Joesph was sold off. Remember the dreams, if Joesph as a type of Messiah was sent to a land not his own to prepare a safe place for his family. If Joesph had not be sold all would have starved to death. And as Nebula pointed out it was Judah who later stepped up for his brother. shalom, Mizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted January 28, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2012 Staying on the theme of Joseph his brothers found they couldn't kill him and betrayed him into the hands of Gentiles. Interestingly enough it was his brother Judah who came up with the idea and they sold him for twenty shekels of silver. He was wrongly accused and condemned In a place of condemnation he was with two individuals, one given life and the other death Joseph was lifted from a place of condemnation to a place of exaltation. And it was all part of His plan when Joesph was sold off. Remember the dreams, if Joesph as a type of Messiah was sent to a land not his own to prepare a safe place for his family. If Joesph had not be sold all would have starved to death. And as Nebula pointed out it was Judah who later stepped up for his brother. shalom, Mizz I know there are many types I'm just not sure what your saying. I don't have a problem with Judah being a type of Messiah I was mentioning the interesting word play with Judah and Judas and the silver. There is so much in there that how can these things not build faith. Didn't want to stall the post or side track it. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted January 29, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Staying on the theme of Joseph his brothers found they couldn't kill him and betrayed him into the hands of Gentiles. Interestingly enough it was his brother Judah who came up with the idea and they sold him for twenty shekels of silver. He was wrongly accused and condemned In a place of condemnation he was with two individuals, one given life and the other death Joseph was lifted from a place of condemnation to a place of exaltation. And it was all part of His plan when Joesph was sold off. Remember the dreams, if Joesph as a type of Messiah was sent to a land not his own to prepare a safe place for his family. If Joesph had not be sold all would have starved to death. And as Nebula pointed out it was Judah who later stepped up for his brother. shalom, Mizz I know there are many types I'm just not sure what your saying. I don't have a problem with Judah being a type of Messiah I was mentioning the interesting word play with Judah and Judas and the silver. There is so much in there that how can these things not build faith. Didn't want to stall the post or side track it. Sorry. And twenty shekels was not even what a healthy slave would sell for. Juda and the brothers were looking for the easiest way to get rid of him. (Its amazing to me the years of mistreatment and imprisonment that Joseph had to endure but he was content in his confinements, and as it is stated over and over in the book of genisis " and the Lord was with him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I was mentioning the interesting word play with Judah and Judas and the silver. Actually, it would be m ore symbolic of the Jews rejecting their Messiah - resulting in the natural branches being cut off and the wild branches being grafted back in (Romans 11). Correlating Judas with Judah puts more blame on Judas for Jesus' death than the High Priest and other members of the Jewish leadership, which is out of synch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted January 29, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2012 I was mentioning the interesting word play with Judah and Judas and the silver. Actually, it would be m ore symbolic of the Jews rejecting their Messiah - resulting in the natural branches being cut off and the wild branches being grafted back in (Romans 11). Correlating Judas with Judah puts more blame on Judas for Jesus' death than the High Priest and other members of the Jewish leadership, which is out of synch. I mentioned it as a word play actually and not really a type. I do see your point, I find typology interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I mentioned it as a word play... Well, "Judas" comes from the Greek word for "Judah". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted January 30, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2012 I mentioned it as a word play... Well, "Judas" comes from the Greek word for "Judah". Right, so we both agree that Joseph being rejected by his brothers is a type of Jesus being rejected by His brothers, the Jews. And being betrayed was given into the hands of the gentiles and being wrongly accused was sent to a place of condemnation. Types aren't perfect play by play scenes. General doctrinal themes played out in story. I just find it interesting that within the narrative we see the exchange of silver and the name Judah appearing. It further supports the type rather than making more type, that's all. The Holy Spirit didn't have Moses write "and they all said, come let us sell him to the Ishmaelites....Moses wrote... And Judah said to his brothers..... . We see the influence the spirit of the age had on Peter when saying to Jesus "not so Lord" and Jesus rebuking saying "Get behind me Satan". It didn't make Peter a type of the anti-christ did it? I do believe that there is a consistency with a type of Judas in the gospels as the coming man of sin that I do see supported by the way Genesis tells the story but it doesn't have anything to do with supporting Joseph as being a type of the Messiah fulfilled in His first coming. Only a consistency that further supports another type. But a whole other subject. Hope I'm explaining a little better. I like types, but it isn't something I directly look for and try to remain careful. I Mentioned before the rule that keeps me grounded with typology..... typology should be used to illuminate doctrine but never make doctrine. Look, typology further proves the work of the Holy Spirit from beginning to end. No man could ever lay out over a thousand years writings having everything weave together as does the Word of God. Judah being named may have other theological meaning but it is also a little mark of the Holy Spirit further framing or supporting the type. How could anyone but God know that it would be a man named Judas that would betray His Son. I am not making further typology. Just pointing out a word play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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