tsth Posted June 3, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 3, 2002 If I may be so rude as to just jump in here? I would like to make a comment. Why is it we so easily wave the banner of Jesus Christ gets us in, but with just as much fervor, we like to forget that "sin" keeps us out. A lifestyle of it that is. (Read Galatians 5) Why do we deny the power of Christ within us, if we have received Him as our Lord and Savior, He is able to keep us from sinful lives, if we will adhere to the Power that is from Him. (having a form of godliness, but denying its power) We constantly see and hear of those who claim to be Christian, yet refuse to acknowledge the power that we are given to overcome the things of the flesh and this world. We deny that power all the time now. 1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 2:11 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. All I'm asking is this: Where is the righteousness we have in Christ Jesus? If we continue to live a life of sin, does Jesus Christ live in us??? In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted June 4, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2002 I'm saying that the question IS....ARE YOU TRULY SAVED?....HAVE YOU TRULY BEEN RE-BORN? Rev3:2.."Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God." They are not truly saved, trusting in Jesus, but their own deeds. Reminds me of: Matt7:22.."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?..(23)..And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me , ye that work iniquity." They didn't know the Saviour, to know Him is to TRUST him. To believe in His FINISHED work, to be baptized by Him in the Holy Spirit....re-born..into the new creature that God works in to achieve His good pleasure. Your works can ONLY be counted PERFECT....IF...they are covered by the redeeming Blood of the Saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted June 4, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted June 4, 2002 That's right CWJ!! Preach it!! AMEN HALLELUJIA (I'm glad at least we know we're saved--always!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 I'm not taking a side here, because I don't know. We can use scripture to suggest either one is true. If pressed for an answer, I believe pretty much the same way Carl does. Once TRULY saved, always saved. The word truly being the key. Many people play at it but never made Yeshua their personal L-rd of their entire lives. That sentence by itself is quite awesome, it says so much. Once we really begin to look at what it means, it is not so easy. I'm not talking about works, but just the opposite- letting go to let the L-rd lead us. But for the ones who believe strongly in OSAS, let me share with you briefly the story of Charles Templeton, a man who used to be one of Billy Graham's closest friends. (This story is taken from "The Case For Faith" by Lee Strobel) "According to Templeton, he became a Christian... when he found himself increasingly disgusted with his lifestyle. Fresh from a night out at a sleazy strip joint, feeling shoddy and unclean, he went to his room and knelt by his bed in the darkness. 'Suddenly,' he would recall later, 'it was though a black blanket had been draped over me. A sense of guilt pervaded my entire mind and body. The only words that would come were, 'Lord, come down. Come down...' And then: Slowly, a weight began to lift... It passed through my thighs, my torso... and lifted off. An ineffable warmth began to suffuse my body. It seem that a light had turned on in my chest and that it had cleansed me... I hardly dared breathe, fearing that I might alter or end the moment. And I heard myself whispering softly over and over again, 'Thank you, Lord. Thank you.' " Templeton soon went into the ministry to become an evangelist. "But soon doubts began gnawing at Templeton... 'I lacked the intellectual skills and the theological training needed to buttress my beliefs when... questions and doubts began to plague me... My reason had begun to challenge and sometimes rebut the central beliefs of the Christian faith.' " For those who know who Templeton is, you know he is an eloquent writer and an agnostic who wrote books denying the existence of G-d. So my question is this: how can a Christian be an agnostic and still be a Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munari Posted June 4, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 444 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2002 May I suggest a book that talks about this very issue. I'm reading it right now, and its pretty good, but I got lost in the part I just read because its talking about minute differences, and about concepts I've never heard of. It is by a Catholic author who used to be Protestant, but I can't remember off hand what denomination. Very interesting. The book is "The Salvation Controversy" by James Akin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 This was a pretty hot topic until I posted. Come on Carl and the rest of you who believe in OSAS, help me out with this question concerning Templeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For Him Alone Posted June 6, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 396 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/04/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/26/1961 Share Posted June 6, 2002 I believe OSAS because if you're TRULY saved, born again, etc, you will not commit heinous crimes that would make you question your salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 FHA, read my post concerning Templeton and help me out. How does a saved person become an agnostic and remain saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted June 7, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2002 I would label him an apostate, so close...yet so far away. He remained a natural man, unable to recieve the things of God. Plenty of scriptures to describe this. You might want to read this whole thread, if you haven't. Peace, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Thanks, Carl. The thread is too big. Can you explain what you mean? I'm not trying to be difficult. I have always believed in OSAS until I read about Templeton, and now I'm not sure. I'm just looking for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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