dwinkjr Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1981 Share Posted September 1, 2004 This is a stem off of a Topic that was closed. When it was Closed there were some unanswered questions still lingering before the thread went off topic. I wish to continue those discussions. Please do not hijack this into a Protestant vs. Catholic thread. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ dwinkjr said: Though I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100%. I think we are talking about 2 different things. And maybe I should of worded it better by Saying the Bible is not all there is to God. And that he can and will reveal other things to us by means of modern writings and even other ancient writings not included in the Bible. KMB Said: I'm just not sure how any other book can show me more about who God is. Can you give me a specific example...I think I may be missing something here, Dave. There are alot of historical writings that did not make it into the Canon when the New Testament was put together. There were also alot of writings that took place after the Canonization of the New Testament. Yes we must compare these writings to what we are already have, and if they contradict the bible then we must disregard them, if they fall in line with it we may possibly be able to pick up something else from those writings. To me its just kinda silly to say God stopped giving us his word after the Canonization. I find it extremely possible and likely that the Father to this day continues to inspire authors to teach us. We can also Learn more about the New Testament by studying the history of when it was written and Looking at the standards and customs of those times. For instance. between 1-50 there was not much being written down, but there oral traditions then were very good, For instance men could put the entire Tora to memory, but to understand this further you would also have to understand that there Idea of Oral Tradition then was that you maintain what were considered the High points, and the minor details could then be altered slightly to build up to the main point. We can see this put to work in the differences in the Gospels. dwinkjr said: Though I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100%. I think we are talking about 2 different things. And maybe I should of worded it better by Saying the Bible is not all there is to God. And that he can and will reveal other things to us by means of modern writings and even other ancient writings not included in the Bible. His Son Said: This is the reason why God wrote this Scripture: Prov 3:5 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (KJV) We get to know more about God than The Bible can reveal to us through our personal relationship with Him, not by reading other books. Thats why God told us to read, and meditate in His Scriptures night, and day. There is no room for other books. There is no room for other books? Really? So history and discovering the Context of the New Testament means nothing to you? How about the fact that the original Canonization contained the Apocrypha and was considered to be God's word for over 1000 yrs before Luther Chose to remove it? Is this not taking away from God's word? So you have no use for authors like Dobson and Lee Strobel? You cannot see how there works can help Christians grow in knowledge and understanding? So the fact that prominent historians like josephus actually mention Jesus in his writings is not significant to you? BobTriez, I'm sorry if restarting this part of that thread was out of line, if you feel it was please close it at your own discretion or let me know and i will do so. Everyone, Please DONOT turn this into a Catholic vs Protestant thread. God Bless, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I read different books by different authors on their take of scripture or on their testimony and find it to be okay. Although the scriptures to me are the final authority, I can also see Gods work in different peoples lives thru their testimony and witness of Him. Are there different books spoken of in the scriptures that are not part of the scriptures? Seems like I read somewhere in the bible of a couple of them. Will try to find that today. A lot of people I know wont even look at the apocrapha, stating that its all fallecy, but that is simply not true. Like I said, the Scriptures are my final authority, but there were witnessess to Yeshuas resurrection, who did not follow Him, but wrote of Him. I agree with you dwinkjr about historical time lines and such. Thats why I study hebrew roots, to get to know why the jews believed as they did and still do, and I believe that all should study the history of Israel, their beliefs, traditions, oral and written. Someone once said to me that the Torah and the first 4 books of the new testament(the gospels) was all we really needed and the rest was just commentary. I guess he meant the rest were just letters written to the different churches. Although I do not agree with that analogy, I see what he was saying is that we live by the word of God and Jesus and not by Pauls word, or Peters word, ect... I believe all scripture is the word of God, but some apparently dont even believe that. Oh well, just compare everything you read with scripture to make sure it lines up with scripture. Thats what makes us bereans! Study to show thyself approved. shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2004 Well said Yahsway! but there were witnessess to Yeshuas resurrection, who did not follow Him, but wrote of Him. Would you mind expanding on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I must disagree with you. Jesus is all we need - yes ? Jesus is the Word ( John 1 ) - yes ? What more do you want ? I desire nothing else....He is altogether worthy :il: I do love Him so. I locked that other thread for several reasons, one being the fact that it lost Jesus. We at Worthy do not espouse your beliefs; in fact, we are so opposed ? That from our Statement of Faith I quote - We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. As of now, I will allow this thread, but I for one will be watching it very close; so is God. If this takes the wrong turn ? Let it be no surprise that it will be locked directly. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwinkjr Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1981 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Although the scriptures to me are the final authority, I can also see Gods work in different peoples lives thru their testimony and witness of Him. My Point exactly.. God Bless, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwinkjr Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1981 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I must disagree with you. Jesus is all we need - yes ? Jesus is the Word ( John 1 ) - yes ? What more do you want ? I desire nothing else....He is altogether worthy :il: I do love Him so. I locked that other thread for several reasons, one being the fact that it lost Jesus. We at Worthy do not espouse your beliefs; in fact, we are so opposed ? That from our Statement of Faith I quote - We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. As of now, I will allow this thread, but I for one will be watching it very close; so is God. If this takes the wrong turn ? Let it be no surprise that it will be locked directly. God bless, Bob Well Bob, I agree Jesus is our Focus. And will go even farther to say that there are historical writings that acknowledge Jesus's existance and that fact that he did supernatural things as they call it. The bottom line is there is historical writings and modern day writings that can help us grow in our walk with the Lord and make us better witnesses for him. Which is what we are called to do is it not? Go out and make disciples? So if there are books that can help you to better achieve that why would you not utilize them? How do you show historical relevence to an agnostic or an aetheist if you do not know the historical facts? God Bless, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwinkjr Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1981 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I must disagree with you. Jesus is all we need - yes ? Jesus is the Word ( John 1 ) - yes ? What more do you want ? I desire nothing else....He is altogether worthy :il: I do love Him so. I locked that other thread for several reasons, one being the fact that it lost Jesus. We at Worthy do not espouse your beliefs; in fact, we are so opposed ? That from our Statement of Faith I quote - We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. As of now, I will allow this thread, but I for one will be watching it very close; so is God. If this takes the wrong turn ? Let it be no surprise that it will be locked directly. God bless, Bob Also you then would say that God stopped inspiring authors after the Canonization in 300ad? how do you reconcile the apocrypha then? Bob donot take this the wrong way, I am not saying we should take our focus off of Christ, I am not saying the Bible is not the Infallable word of God. What I am saying is there are other things that have been written that are not within the 66 Books of the Protestant Bible or even the 73 Books of hte Catholic Bible that are valid reads and can hone the blades of the sword. God Cannot be confined to a box of any size he is God. God Bless, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Called Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I must disagree with you. Jesus is all we need - yes ? Jesus is the Word ( John 1 ) - yes ? What more do you want ? I desire nothing else....He is altogether worthy :il: I do love Him so. I locked that other thread for several reasons, one being the fact that it lost Jesus. We at Worthy do not espouse your beliefs; in fact, we are so opposed ? That from our Statement of Faith I quote - We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. As of now, I will allow this thread, but I for one will be watching it very close; so is God. If this takes the wrong turn ? Let it be no surprise that it will be locked directly. God bless, Bob Well Bob, I agree Jesus is our Focus. And will go even farther to say that there are historical writings that acknowledge Jesus's existance and that fact that he did supernatural things as they call it. The bottom line is there is historical writings and modern day writings that can help us grow in our walk with the Lord and make us better witnesses for him. Which is what we are called to do is it not? Go out and make disciples? So if there are books that can help you to better achieve that why would you not utilize them? How do you show historical relevence to an agnostic or an aetheist if you do not know the historical facts? God Bless, Dave Dave, I don't think that anyone is saying that it is not beneficial to read other books in order to help us grow as a Christian. Although too many times Christian's read every book there is and never open up the Bible. Personally, I feel the Bible is the best resource for us to grow in our walk with Christ, but I do supplement my Bible reading with other books. But, how can the words of men ever compete with the living Word of God. It can't! I think the point is that we need to hold EVERYTHING (this includes, traditions and doctrines) up to the Word of God. If it is consistent with what the Bible says, then I am fine. HOWEVER, if it does not mirror the Word, it gets tossed! Like Bob said, Jesus is the Word and Jesus is all we need. The Bible is the final authority. Plain and simple! God Bless Dave! Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I am not here to argue this point. God has made it clear; you have the Word, argue with Him, not me. It is not I you have a disagreement with. My post was to give a fair warning that this thread is being watch very close...if it begins to turn into a "Catholic is the one true church" digression that has been so common as of late ? I will lock the thread. If it begins to teach that the Bible is not the only Word of God ? I will lock the thread. If Jesus is no longer the focus ? I will lock the thread. I stand firm in my convictions on this. God preserved His Word, He promised He would ( Isaiah 40:8 - The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." ). I trust Him at His Word....I simply do not see an argument here, other than an attack of the enemy to divide & cause confusion. God does not author confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not a God of disorder but of peace )....that being said, why trust anything that brings confusion to something simple ? Again, I've said more than I planned to....just be careful of what is said....and take heed - Proverbs 30:5-6 5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwinkjr Posted September 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1981 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave, I must disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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