It is Finished

[Valid Name]

Greetings Xan,

I saw your signature that said 'What part about 'it is finished' don't you understand.

In your opinion, 'What' was finished, and what was the significance of him saying this after the vinegar upon the hyssop was given to him?

Sincerely,

Valid Name

[Timothy]

I believe the answer to that question is given in that same passage.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Psalm 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

[Guest Xan]

Valid, I put that in my signature after getting frustrated with some well-meaning Catholics (please I am no longer debating Catholic doctrine, just explaining my signature) who believe in transbutation (sp?).  There is only one final sacrifice for the covering of our sins.  Now it is up to us to accept that sacrifice and Yeshua's (Jesus') lordship over our lives.

[Timothy]

Wow, I just discovered my settings had the "signatures" turned off.

Sorry to have butted-in.

[Valid Name]

Greetings Timothy and Xan,

I am quite bummed that this board does not email me when there is a reply, I'll just have to check in now and again eh?

Timothy, your response is what I precieved I would get, however after comment one made in a sermon a while ago, it is incorrect, even though it is the classic thought.

Did you know that that psalm had already been fulfilled before that?

Matthew 27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

I do not believe that this was the scripture that Messiah spoke of when he said this.  I do believe that it was this:

Numbers 19:6 And the priest shall take cedar wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast it into the midst of the burning of the heifer.

The hyssop was the last ingrediant need to fulfill the scriptures concerning his death.

Did you know that the scarlet from Num 19:6 was also added?

Matthew 27: 28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

What do you suppose was Ceder at his death?

Sincerely,

Valid Name

[Catsmeow]

Xan, I have always loved my RC brothers/sis, but from the time I was a small child, I had trouble with the doctrines being taught. I sense, almost instinctively, that  something didn't set quite right. Maybe the discernment given a child, I don't know.

Jesus said, "It is finished" and He meant just that. He didn't say that  after we suffer in pergatory it'll be finished.

He said to the thief on his right hand, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise." He didn't say, " Well, pal...you gotta go and suffer awhile in a holding tank called "pergatory" then I'll come and get ya."

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude here, but I can't figure out where some of these teachings come from. It's like Gnosticism - purely heretical.

In Him,  Cat

[Valid Name]

Greetings Catsmeow,

I am not sure what your definition of 'Gnostism' is, however I will give a thought to see if you agree.

Do you mean like the 'spiritual' side of things, such as seeing a deeper meaning (spiritual side) of the scriptures?  

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge (gnosis 1097)  of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

1108 gnw/sij gnosis {gno'-sis}

Meaning: 1) knowledge signifies in general intelligence, understanding 1a) the general knowledge of Christian religion 1b) the deeper more perfect and enlarged knowledge of this religion, such as belongs to the more advanced 1c) esp. of things lawful and unlawful for Christians 1d) moral wisdom, such as is seen in right living

Origin: from 1097; TDNT - 1:689,119; n f

Usage: AV - knowledge 28, science 1; 29

If you mean there is no spiritual side to the scriptures, I am sure I can change your mind :thumb: .  

Or did you mean the RCC is a pain in the butt that doesn't read scripture?

Sincerely,

Valid Name

[Guest Xan]

I know some of what Cat is speaking.  Gnosticism is the name of a heretical religion that was started and was pretty strong in the second century.  He (she?) wasn't talking about the knowledge of scripture, he was comparing some of the RCC doctrines to that of the religion called Gnosticism.  I do not know much about Gnosticism, but these are a few things I do know:

They have "other" gospels; including the "Gospel of Thomas" and the "Gospel of Mary"

They believed the only woman pure enough to enter heaven was Mary and that all other women must first become men to enter the kingdom of heaven.

They baptised their dead.

They believed in the continuing existence of Abraham's Bosom.

[Bernie]

Hello catsmeow,

Hope you don't mind my jumping in here....

You said, "Jesus said, "It is finished" and He meant just that. He didn't say that  after we suffer in pergatory it'll be finished."

I am a former Catholic who didn't believe in Purgatory when I was a church member (31 yrs. ago), but came to believe in it from studying the Scriptures in recent years.

We need to be careful not to assign human understanding to God's works.  Our Lord's mention of His work being "finished" does not necessarily mean what modern Christianity wishes it to mean.  When God decrees something, it is totally, completely finished IN ETERNITY.  It is thus because there is no power in the universe that can overcome and render ineffective or false His decrees.  

When God told Saul he was taking the kingdom from him and giving it to David, it didn't happen for some years, even though it was effectively FINISHED when He decreed it.

When Jesus said His work was finished, it also means FINISHED according to God's eternal plan.  It ain't finished from OUR perspective any more than Saul's kingdom was taken from him the moment he was informed of God's pronouncement.  Hope this makes sense.

I also believe there is a "spiritual" side to the Scriptures, Validname, and that the "spiritual" and "literal" are not enemies, but compliment one another.  Too often, we argue one over the other, when we should see the two as interconnected.

God bless you in your walk.

[Catsmeow]

You're new here, Val...

I am definitely not Anti-Catholic. I was raised RC and went to parochial school as a kid. I received all the sacraments and was big into CYO as a teen.

My family is RC; my best friend is RC...you get the idea.

I have defended RCs many a time. I consider RCs as my brothers/sis in Christ.  

Having said all that, I "defected" to the evangelical side years ago. I disagree with much of the papal doctrine in general.

DESPITE that,  I enjoy very sweet fellowship with my RC bros/sis. I don't let our doctrinal differences come between us. I refuse to allow that; we agree to disagree.

It is not the Lord's desire that we quarrel and divide. It is His divine command that we love one another.  -Cat  :inlove: