Mysticism Infiltrating the Church(es) ....

[enoob57]

This is a most excellent post... thank you for it! May I use it in my library? Love Steven

[Guest]

Mystically Speaking

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

The Occult Has Nothing To Do With It

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

For Jesus Saves

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And It Is No Secret

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Jesus Is LORD

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

And Only Jesus Reconciles

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:20:21

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Believe

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Isaiah 53:10-11

And Be Blessed Beloved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Love, Joe

[j102]

I don't know if this applys but what about charismatic groups? Maybe it's just me but don't they sound a little, to borrow my best friend's term, squelchy. I mean the only thing I know about charismatic groups is what I learned from news coverage a few years ago and it seemed like the Catholic Church was unaffected, then I find out this year that my church has a charismatic group and they held a healing service at my church like a week or two ago. Again maybe it's just me but charismatic just seems wrong, to me it feels like they're going to compleatly break away from Faith Tradition which is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad (repeat until you have to take a breath then repeat that 3 times) thing.

Thoughts?

Why do Charismatics seem wrong to you?

Are you Catholic? I know of some Charismatic Catholics. I was ministered to by one of them many years ago.

If by "Faith Tradition" you mean the tradition of the Catholic Church, would not that be all Protestants and interdenominationals and such, not just Charismatics?

i used to hang around charismatic groups and even considerd myself one at one point in time but as i matured and grew in the lord, it was revieled to me that not all but a lot of charismatics get WAY too emotional to the point where they get brainwashed during the services and become abunch of yes men that just follow the pastor without thinking for themselves. and when a person does say something that goes against what they say the preacher will make the whole church know that you are a "troublemaker" and too avoid you.

[imoss]

Christian Mysticism is not without its place in scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Most can easily turn to the Gospels to support this text. But in Paul's day, when he wrote the passage above, only the Old Testament was in existence. The same is true when this was written:

Acts 17:11 (KJV)

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

If you eliminate mysticism altogether you are in for some interesting dilemmas providing the Old Testament proof texts Paul and Luke cited.

The Lord Jesus gave us the text (though there are more):

Matthew 12:39-40 (KJV)

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whales belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mysticism / mystery are quite close in definition.

Romans 16:25 (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 2:7 (KJV)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Chuck Missler rightly points out that the Bible is an integrated message system. Every word has a purpose. Every letter. Every space. The Old Covenant scholars had a saying that when the Messiah comes he will explain Torah down to every word and even to every space between. This is not just colorful language to amuse the scholars.

Matthew 5:18 (KJV)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

A yod is the smallest Hebrew letter (') or tittle a portion of a Hebrew letter.

Proverbs 25:2 (KJV)

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Deuteronomy 29:29 (KJV)

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

These things were necessary to prevent hostile jamming of the communication of the word of God to the people. And to promote faith finding facts. And it is always in that order. Faith comes first. Then the proof of the faith comes later. Or as Missler says, believing in seeing.

Without a doubt people can go overboard with mysticism and see things that are untrue. This is why we who study the word and the mysteries of God do so with an overall application of scripture and the tutelage of the Holy Spirit which we test by scripture.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 John 4:1 (KJV)

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try {{test}} the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)

11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The word of God is our measuring line for truth versus untruth. It is also our frame of reference point.

Psalm 138:2 (KJV)

2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

But without a certain amount of mysticism, we would be stuck in the blind rut the Jews who reject Jesus are.

Well I must say I will call you sir when I address you from this point on! To me, you have earned Sir JohnDB! A most excellent post!

Princess

RAISE your hands in the air and praise our mighty and precious Lord for whom no man comes between living or dead! Praise his Holy name! Pray not in repetition, Pray not to the mother of God for he addressed this in HIS word... who is my mother was said for a reason... Dont kiss a statue or worship a graven image for this is offensive to God. Again I say RAISE your hands in the air without fear because when you do, you feel the glory of God beyond anything your worship experience has ever witnessed.

My husband was an altar boy who started to study Gods word, the KJV. I suggest you do the same as like him, when you pray and then ask God to reveal err in teaching its amazing how the word of God will reveal the will of God. You may choose to stay in that church because you love the tradition. Personally I have a bigger problem with idolatry than I do with people raising their hands to praise the Lord and actually actively PRAISING, Joying and worshiping our beautiful Lord.

Psalm 134: 2 Lift up your hands [in] the sanctuary, and bless the LORD

Lamentations 2:19 Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.

Mark 3: 33 & 34 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Given above scripture I pick the church that raises their hands in the air for this is well and pleasing to the Lord. The only ones it doesnt please is those who are to focused on what everyone around them is thinking about how they worship the Lord. Caring more about the thoughts of man than praising our beautiful Lord.

Edited April 9, 2011 by imoss

[JohnD]

This is a most excellent post... thank you for it! May I use it in my library? Love Steven

certainly. and thanks

Edited April 9, 2011 by JohnDB

[JohnD]

thank you.

Christian Mysticism is not without its place in scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Most can easily turn to the Gospels to support this text. But in Paul's day, when he wrote the passage above, only the Old Testament was in existence. The same is true when this was written:

Acts 17:11 (KJV)

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

If you eliminate mysticism altogether you are in for some interesting dilemmas providing the Old Testament proof texts Paul and Luke cited.

The Lord Jesus gave us the text (though there are more):

Matthew 12:39-40 (KJV)

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale

[enoob57]

Many churches are under attack from the enemy, with counterfeit revivals, demonic manifestations, occult practices, Mysticism, New Age ...

How could so many church leaders be easily misled, and continue to add to the deception, leading many people, even Christians into the world of Mysticism ....

Has anyone had experience with Mysticism?

What exactly is wrong with Mysticism?

As JohnDB has walked through the Scriptures with excellence in the post above also this one note of understanding-

Job 9:10-15

10 He does great things past finding out,Yes, wonders without number. 11 If He goes by me, I do not see Him;If He moves past, I do not perceive Him;

12 If He takes away, who can hinder Him?Who can say to Him, 'What are You doing?' 13 God will not withdraw His anger,The allies of the proud lie prostrate beneath Him.

14 "How then can I answer Him,And choose my words to reason with Him? 15 For though I were righteous, I could not answer Him;I would beg mercy of my Judge.

NKJV

Rom 11:33

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

NKJV

Our Lord is without end or beginning so in that range-less truth The Word of God is a tether in an infinite place of mystery (for we have not been told other than God fills it with His presence).

God our Father tells us to wait upon Him so if we are away from His Word and doodling around with the unknown... How do we know what were doodling with and how do we know by the disobedience of being there that we are not toodle-oo of all that God had for us? The fear of The Lord is this-> I sitting right next to another seeing His precious purpose unfold before me and they see nothing but nothing and do not perceive their peril for they do not search His Word to understand truth and the knowing of where exactly they are and why... However what a peace to know this passage in Job that tells us that this is what He does in the presence of the prideful.... Now may I magnify the Glory due Him- With all that His Word teaches us about Him... He exceeds all that we can dream or imagine for the Son has said He can do anything and now set this truth down with one who says there is no God-> as God sets beside them with the Sacrifice He has made for them in order that they may be able to know Him and yet remains unseen -right beside them- in their denial of His existence is the eternal wrath of hell and why it never quits burning for it is fueled with the fact that was their choice over Him and the only Guide Book ever written to traverse the eternities to the Throne of His Heart, His Son, Jesus Christ to gaze upon the One and only Body that never chose sin for itself but chose the sin of all who ever gaze upon it "Our Lord and Savior" Amen... Love Steven

[carmely]

I've even heard of something where churches are taking out the symbol of Christ, the cross and any mention of his sacrifice. They claim that these symbols are negative and the power of positive prayer and thinking is the only way to reach God and get what they want from Him. I've also heard from these doctrines that only if you pray for it, are sincere and positive in grasping for what you want, will God give you what you want. If you didn't get what you prayed for, you didn't pray hard enough. This also goes for faith healing. Like, if you aren't immediately healed from a lay on hands approach, then you don't have faith.

I watched this horrifying video of a woman who went to a faith healer and she had serious arthritic erosion in her hip sockets. She was in a lot of pain. Well, the man laid hands on her and then she got up and jumped around because she was so happy that she thought she was healed-- and promptly fell flat on her face when one of her ball joints in her hip slid out of place. Did that mean she didn't believe? She paid hundreds of dollars to meet the man.

I also recall, with some hilarity I might add, Benny Hinn and his holy healing jacket: beating down the masses with his sports coat. I always imagine the reason they fall over when he smacks them in the face is that he left his car keys and cellphone in the pocket of that jacket...

Edited April 16, 2011 by carmely

[j102]

I've even heard of something where churches are taking out the symbol of Christ, the cross and any mention of his sacrifice. They claim that these symbols are negative and the power of positive prayer and thinking is the only way to reach God and get what they want from Him. I've also heard from these doctrines that only if you pray for it, are sincere and positive in grasping for what you want, will God give you what you want. If you didn't get what you prayed for, you didn't pray hard enough. This also goes for faith healing. Like, if you aren't immediately healed from a lay on hands approach, then you don't have faith.

I watched this horrifying video of a woman who went to a faith healer and she had serious arthritic erosion in her hip sockets. She was in a lot of pain. Well, the man laid hands on her and then she got up and jumped around because she was so happy that she thought she was healed-- and promptly fell flat on her face when one of her ball joints in her hip slid out of place. Did that mean she didn't believe? She paid hundreds of dollars to meet the man.

I also recall, with some hilarity I might add, Benny Hinn and his holy healing jacket: beating down the masses with his sports coat. I always imagine the reason they fall over when he smacks them in the face is that he left his car keys and cellphone in the pocket of that jacket...

good one benny hinn lol