Fez Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 16, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,377 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,557 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I've read where you think I am unaware of the choices of trees God gave to eat and not eat from which you cite as evidence of freewill. Deut. 29 & 30 God states we have choice and demands we choose! I've read where you feel I need to know that my heart is wicked and deceitful so as not to trust it, but to trust the Godly scripture through which you judge me and deny my hearts purity. You've assigned to me 2 Timothy 2:14-16 as my edification. You do not understand what I say, so you've stripped me naked in your pursuit to find something wrong with me in character, and that's okay, I don't care. I will dance naked before you and I am not ashamed, are you? If I speak, my sentiments are to you, counted as words of ruin. I shall not cast a stumbling block.Larry what the created thing thinks is of lessor importance... What the Creator thinks is everything... feelings, sentiments, desires that rise above God's Purposed Word is idolatry and I desire for God's Word to be our deepest portion Now, be honest and admit that Satan proposed there was a choice, "option" in the Garden of Eden when he said we could disobey God and live. If not, you are denying Satan ever tempted mankind. Likewise you must also admit God did not give us this option. That fact that it was put there and we were able to eat from it was choice... Later God removed choice of the Tree of Life and it's eating by purposed force of angel with flaming sword to guard it from such who would try... We were sealed in our choice of sin until Christ provided a righteous way in Himself to once again provide choice back to the image of God that was created (us)... We now have the power to choose obedience to Him through His Word by The Power of the Holy Spirit within us thus not by our righteous works but by His within us as ours by The Power of Grace it is how we say I love You Lord Jesus 1 John 5:2-5 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? No, it tells me there is misunderstranding. Especially since you just finished agreeing with me on the basics, upon which I seek to estabilsh all reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 16, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? No, it tells me there is misunderstanding. Especially since you just finished agreeing with me on the basics, upon which I seek to establish all reasoning. You sure love to talk without concluding! You and I are as far away on agreeing on anything that you have said (the deeper meaning thereof), than east is from west... Perhaps you missed my point (or dodged it), but simple you ain't You convolute simplicity into a pretzel with no beginning or end. The bible is not like that......Only sometimes we twist it into that shape to suit our own needs. The Word is the bread of life, not the pretzel of conjecture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? No, it tells me there is misunderstanding. Especially since you just finished agreeing with me on the basics, upon which I seek to establish all reasoning. You sure love to talk without concluding! You and I are as far away on agreeing on anything that you have said (the deeper meaning thereof), than east is from west... Perhaps you missed my point (or dodged it), but simple you ain't You convolute simplicity into a pretzel with no beginning or end. The bible is not like that......Only sometimes we twist it into that shape to suit our own needs. The Word is the bread of life, not the pretzel of conjecture! Very cute. Thank you sir, may I have another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 16, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 16, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? No, it tells me there is misunderstanding. Especially since you just finished agreeing with me on the basics, upon which I seek to establish all reasoning. You sure love to talk without concluding! You and I are as far away on agreeing on anything that you have said (the deeper meaning thereof), than east is from west... Perhaps you missed my point (or dodged it), but simple you ain't You convolute simplicity into a pretzel with no beginning or end. The bible is not like that......Only sometimes we twist it into that shape to suit our own needs. The Word is the bread of life, not the pretzel of conjecture! Very cute. Thank you sir, may I have another? We all know what happened to Oliver after he asked that question! (and it was gruel if my memory serves me correctly, not bread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 17, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2011 name='enoob57' timestamp='1302977817' post='1667838'] Deut. 29 & 30 God states we have choice and demands we choose! Dear Steven, I never said we don't make choices. When Adam awoke, I presume he chose to open his eyes, I presume he chose to sit up, to stand, to walk and look around. Perhaps he chose to stretch. All of life is choices. A sentient being has a reasoning mind and life requires he use it as he navigates all the options available. A man must choose to be doing something at all times even if he chooses to do nothing. But pertaining to moral choices , if I ask the rhetorical question, Why does one man choose to go one way, and one choose to go another, the fact there exists a choice does not address the question.For I am seeking why one man is unrighteous and why another is righteous. The answer is Love, for morality is a spiritual matter. A man's moral spirit is determined by his image of God. For his image of god is the absolute upon which he reasons and therefore how he arrives at his decisions. In the Garden man trusted Satan over God and this preceded the disobedience. Let me say that another way so that Satan does not steal it. Eve would not have eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if she would have trusted God. She didn't trust God however and so she doubted God. She trusted Satan and disobeyed God. Or should I say, unrighteousness happens by distrust in God, and therefore righteousness is by faith. So I have said all of this for your benefit that you might understand that righteousness is by faith, not because there exists an option, a choice. He who trusts God does not ponder whether he should disobey Him. Larry what the created thing thinks is of lessor importance... What the Creator thinks is everything... feelings, sentiments, desires that rise above God's Purposed Word is idolatry and I desire for God's Word to be our deepest portion Of course what the Creator thinks is more important than the created thing. Look at the universe and all that is in it. A miraculous, incredible piece of workmanship I could not even begin to comprehend the workings of. Now how shall I think I'm smarter than the maker of all things so as to distrust Him and disobey Him? I also stand with you, as I always have, in saying His Word is all in all that should be the utmost desired. But our difference is that you seek it through scripture foremost, whereas I recieved first of revelation and then sought reproof in scripture. I do not presume I am better than you, though you appear to presume that I do. All I've tried to say, is Moses heard from God and wrote it down. David heard from God and wrote it down. Everyone who contributed to the oracles of God, heard from God. I've always assumed everyone who believes in Christ heard from God, but I don't discount those who have heard Christ speak through the scriptures. His words are surely there, but Christ doesn't exist because of the scriptures. The scriptures exist because of him. John 5: 39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Now, be honest and admit that Satan proposed there was a choice, "option" in the Garden of Eden when he said we could disobey God and live. If not, you are denying Satan ever tempted mankind. Likewise you must also admit God did not give us this option. That fact that it was put there and we were able to eat from it was choice... Later God removed choice of the Tree of Life and it's eating by purposed force of angel with flaming sword to guard it from such who would try... Yes we chose to eat from that which was forbidden, but only after we trusted Satan over God, hence distrust in God preceded disobedience. Had we trusted God we would not have considered the option. So the fact that we could eat of it if we chose to is irrelevant. It would be like saying, because the person's house was not locked, so that is why I robbed it. We were sealed in our choice of sin until Christ provided a righteous way in Himself to once again provide choice back to the image of God that was created (us)... We now have the power to choose obedience to Him through His Word by The Power of the Holy Spirit within us thus not by our righteous works but by His within us as ours by The Power of Grace it is how we say I love You Lord Jesus You say we were sealed in our choice of sin. This is no different than me saying we cannot choose to be good or bad of our own volition, which is why I favor Christ's description of a freewill as in John 8:32. You are right to say we can now choose "by The Power of the Holy Spirit". Romans 5:5-6, And hope does not put us to shame, because God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 17, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2011 name='mizzdy' timestamp='1302708500' post='1667095'] You may believe in your heart what you are saying is absolutely true and so does the person your talking to, does that make one of you right and the other wrong and how do you decided if both are quoting the same scriptures just applying different meanings? This is an excellent question. There is a Truth and there are lies. I find most disagreements are over semantics. Simple misunderstandings. However, there are lies that do exist and can be exposed by those who know how. Jesus did this often and so did his apostles. Such is the power of the Truth. The Truth is not impotent. The basics are all that are necessary for agreement, since all truth is built precept upon precept. First of all, if it causes anyone to distrust God or defines God as a thing or less than a man, as not the Spirit of Love, it is not Truth. If it is in conflict with love others as you would want to be loved, it is built upon hypocrisy, and no Truth is built on hypocrisy. Honesty and humility is all that is needed to see Truth. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple, and into what we call "DEEP THEOLOGY". Here men become puffed up and carnal minded in divisiveness. All I'm saying that is true and no one will move me, is that "men are not free to disobey God and live". To believe otherwise is contrary to both the commandments of Christ. The problems occur as we get farther away from what is simple Well you got that right. Now, why not try and make it so? Can you see that everyone in this forum disagree's with most of what you say, and are mostly united in what they believe? Does that not tell you something about your "theology"? No, it tells me there is misunderstanding. Especially since you just finished agreeing with me on the basics, upon which I seek to establish all reasoning. You sure love to talk without concluding! You and I are as far away on agreeing on anything that you have said (the deeper meaning thereof), than east is from west... Perhaps you missed my point (or dodged it), but simple you ain't You convolute simplicity into a pretzel with no beginning or end. The bible is not like that......Only sometimes we twist it into that shape to suit our own needs. The Word is the bread of life, not the pretzel of conjecture! Very cute. Thank you sir, may I have another? We all know what happened to Oliver after he asked that question! (and it was gruel if my memory serves me correctly, not bread) So also God serves the best bread, but you Fez give me gruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 17, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,377 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,557 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 In the Garden man trusted Satan over God and this preceded the disobedience. Let me say that another way so that Satan does not steal it. Eve would not have eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if she would have trusted God. She didn't trust God however and so she doubted God. She trusted Satan and disobeyed God. Or should I say, unrighteousness happens by distrust in God, and therefore righteousness is by faith.Larry whatever this reliance of spirit within you that gives you this understanding of Scripture you had better ditch it for there is little you have been right on since we have began our discourses! This is very serious! You are being deceived! No where in Scripture does it talk about distrust in God is why they ate- Eve ate because she was deceived: Gen 3:13 13 And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." NKJV 2 Cor 11:3 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. NKJV 1 Tim 2:14 4 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. NKJV There was an immediate spiritual separation when Eve ate and Adam standing beside Her realizing it and did not want to be separated from Eve for the oneness bond was complete so He did eat knowingly in direct disobedience to God... for above Adam was not deceived! Gen 3:12 12 Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." NKJV So where did you get that they distrusted God in the eating? Scripture verse? I also stand with you, as I always have, in saying His Word is all in all that should be the utmost desired. But our difference is that you seek it through scripture foremost, whereas I received first of revelation and then sought reproof in scripture. What you are confused in is that Scripture had its beginnings in that way but once it was recorded in the closed cannon of Gen. - Rev. we have been instructed by God to search the Written Word and rightly divide it for this is how we test the spirits that come to us! 2 Tim 2:14-19 14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." NKJV With the Word which is God by the way (Jn 1:1) created the ground and I have found it to be very objective and all else I have spoken to as well!!! Therefore this solid foundation must also have this same objective sourced substance (The Written Word). Here again you are doing what is in reverse or apart from the directives which are in The Word of God... spiritual truth subjectively given and to then go to Scripture to find what you have already received from within as truth- so you search to find Scripture that agrees with your already biased point of view... you are being led subjectively and it is twisting Scripture to your ruin! For you have been right in very little... I do not presume I am better than you, though you appear to presume that I do. All I've tried to say, is Moses heard from God and wrote it down. David heard from God and wrote it down. Everyone who contributed to the oracles of God, heard from God. I've always assumed everyone who believes in Christ heard from God, but I don't discount those who have heard Christ speak through the scriptures. His words are surely there, but Christ doesn't exist because of the scriptures. The scriptures exist because of him. John 5: 39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. satan uses Scripture to pervert his lies and way "The Temptations of Christ" point in fact. Jn 1 "The Word was God" I'm saying that Satan proposed the option that we could disobey God and live, not God. It is the same as saying what the scripture says in Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. It is the same as saying the scripture says in Genesis 2:17, But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. God did not give us the option. How is this not understandable? My goal without any guile is to establish that we are subject to whomever we obey and therefore not free in our wills. That God did not introduce disobedience to Him as an option, wherein men base their claim to a freewill. And thereby cleanse the mind of the notion Satan introduced, that we are free in our wills to disobey God and live. To show such supposed "freedom" to disobey God is in fact slavery to sin. I'll say it another way. We must be servants to either sin or God. I do not deny there is an option, I'm saying as we ponder the decision our distrust of God is made apparent. To distrust the Creator and think we choose Him is vanity. The freewill that is describing God as our prerogative is vanity. The same vanity of Satan who proposed it in the first place. Let me put it another way. Suppose you loved some girl and greatly wanted to marry her. But there was another suitor vying for her affection. So her Father arranged for both of you to meet at the same time and present themselves for her approval. At the meeting both of you came and you poured your heart out on hand and knee as to how greatly you would treasure her and care for her. But the other challenger came with a new car and handsome clothes and lot's of money. The longer she would stare at your rival with admiration, I'll bet the lesser you desired to marry her. So also is it a slap in God's face to ponder the decision as our choice rather than seeing we are lucky to have one such as God to care for us. See the prodigal son. I have in the original OP of all this addresses my inability to reason in my mind God's Sovereignty and man's freewill both are taught along with election and predestination so I am awaiting God enlarging my abilities and so on... Larry we have come full circle twice in this now it is time to put this to bed! Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 17, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2011 name='enoob57' timestamp='1303010127' post='1667915'] Eve ate because she was deceived: So where did you get that they distrusted God in the eating? Scripture verse? Yes she was decieved as I've already posted over ad over. Deceived into distrusting God. Note: For God knows in the day you eat of that fruit your eyes will be open and you will know good and evil and be like God. This statement implies God is secretly keeping something from Eve out of a corrupt motive. So where do we find this statement? In the bible. What you are confused in is that Scripture had its beginnings in that way but once it was recorded in the closed cannon of Gen. - Rev. we have been instructed by God to search the Written Word and rightly divide it for this is how we test the spirits that come to us! 2 Tim 2:14-19 14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: I am not confused as far as I am able to comprehend confusion. In my view you don't rightly divide scripture. You think I shoud test the Holy Spirit because I tell you He says to me that God wants people to trust Him? God is Love, not scripture. The scriptures are good for reproof. Reproof of what, if not what the Spirit tells us? You talk as if you have never experienced the Holy Spirit. "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." Here I believe you rightly divide scripture and say what is appropriate. With the Word which is God by the way (Jn 1:1) created the ground and I have found it to be very objective and all else I have spoken to as well!!! Therefore this solid foundation must also have this same objective sourced substance (The Written Word). Here again you are doing what is in reverse or apart from the directives which are in The Word of God... spiritual truth subjectively given and to then go to Scripture to find what you have already received from within as truth- so you search to find Scripture that agrees with your already biased point of view... you are being led subjectively and it is twisting Scripture to your ruin! For you have been right in very little... Once again I state you are the one who is backwards. God existed before He ever spoke, therefore the Word comes from God not God comes from the Word. The reason the Word is God is because to those who hear it, it is God speaking, His voice. I've been right about everything, for all I've said is righteousness is by faith. I do not presume I am better than you, though you appear to presume that I do. All I've tried to say, is Moses heard from God and wrote it down. David heard from God and wrote it down. Everyone who contributed to the oracles of God, heard from God. I've always assumed everyone who believes in Christ heard from God, but I don't discount those who have heard Christ speak through the scriptures. His words are surely there, but Christ doesn't exist because of the scriptures. The scriptures exist because of him. John 5: 39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. satan uses Scripture to pervert his lies and way "The Temptations of Christ" point in fact. Jn 1 "The Word was God" So your saying what is said here by me is of Satan? That it is not true but a lie? I'm saying that Satan proposed the option that we could disobey God and live, not God. It is the same as saying what the scripture says in Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. It is the same as saying the scripture says in Genesis 2:17, But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. God did not give us the option. How is this not understandable? I have in the original OP of all this addresses my inability to reason in my mind God's Sovereignty and man's freewill both are taught along with election and predestination so I am awaiting God enlarging my abilities and so on... Larry we have come full circle twice in this now it is time to put this to bed! Love Steven Yes Steven, it is right of you to wait upon the Lord for understanding. But just because you don't understand, why subject me to ridicule because I do? You would not even admit that Satan proposed disobedience. I'll leave you alone now, but remember this Steven. Ultimately and moraly speaking, for there to be a choice, you must have more than one God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts