Isaiah 6:8 Posted April 18, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted April 18, 2011 gambling potentially is: by logical extension, distrusting God to provide, way of making money in case He does not provide all we needis rooted in greed, no? love of money is love of money, even if cause is or may seem nobleby logical extension, a form of irresponsible stewardship; we were entrusted with everything we have, but gambling, since it involves risk of losing it(sometimes all of it), irresponsible stewardship by logical extension, a discontent with what God did provide, us wanting more all in all, i think it is always better not to get involved with gambling in any way, no matter how noble or justifiable it may seem. a job that provides enough can be found. or start your own business. First off the op was about makeing gambling your job. I.e. A professional poker player, not if it was sinful many threads tackle that issue. Also starting your own bussness is also at times considered a gamble. So what are we talking about when you define a gamble? Also sometimes greed is a motivator but with high stakes game its not the money but the thrill. Also if you win enough to make a living then it's not really a gamble! Those who try to win big that have no clue what they are doing lose. I grew up in a casino town I have seen it enough. If you can win more then you lose every time you are either a cheat, or are playing Poker and are good at reading people. Now as Candice has pointed out there are also calculated risk such as the stock market.. Some even gamble with this some are wise. Some are foolish . I also enjoy playing poker on my iPod with computer genereated chips that have no cash value just for fun.Does this make me a gambler and greedy? Does it take me into a seedy casino? Also as the Op said please back up with scripture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted April 18, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2011 gambling potentially is: by logical extension, distrusting God to provide, way of making money in case He does not provide all we need is rooted in greed, no? love of money is love of money, even if cause is or may seem noble by logical extension, a form of irresponsible stewardship; we were entrusted with everything we have, but gambling, since it involves risk of losing it(sometimes all of it), irresponsible stewardship by logical extension, a discontent with what God did provide, us wanting more all in all, i think it is always better not to get involved with gambling in any way, no matter how noble or justifiable it may seem. a job that provides enough can be found. or start your own business. I'm not sure I agree with you here Aleksander . God can and often provides through our source of employment. People who run a business take risks and make profit. Is their profiteering a lack of trust in God's provision? I don't think it is. Many of us take risks every day with our money and it's not a lack of faith - just good stewardship. Earning an income isn't necessarily greed, infact those who don't provide for their family are shamed in scripture. Don't mistake love of money for the need to provide. Anyway, we see this from a totally different point of view it seems. Earning money and taking risks is not evil and contrary to biblical teaching, it is loving money and being irresponsible that are contrary. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted April 18, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted April 18, 2011 gambling potentially is: by logical extension, distrusting God to provide, way of making money in case He does not provide all we need is rooted in greed, no? love of money is love of money, even if cause is or may seem noble by logical extension, a form of irresponsible stewardship; we were entrusted with everything we have, but gambling, since it involves risk of losing it(sometimes all of it), irresponsible stewardship by logical extension, a discontent with what God did provide, us wanting more all in all, i think it is always better not to get involved with gambling in any way, no matter how noble or justifiable it may seem. a job that provides enough can be found. or start your own business. I'm not sure I agree with you here Aleksander . God can and often provides through our source of employment. People who run a business take risks and make profit. Is their profiteering a lack of trust in God's provision? I don't think it is. Many of us take risks every day with our money and it's not a lack of faith - just good stewardship. Earning an income isn't necessarily greed, infact those who don't provide for their family are shamed in scripture. Don't mistake love of money for the need to provide. Anyway, we see this from a totally different point of view it seems. Earning money and taking risks is not evil and contrary to biblical teaching, it is loving money and being irresponsible that are contrary. IMHO. To add to that in the parable of the talents the wise servants purchase items to increase the masters wealth with. The took a calculated risk and succeeded. However the servant who buried it and took no risk was thrown out! One question Aleksander do you think it is sinful to have wealth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbler Posted April 19, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 550 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/08/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2011 Gambling is not just poker. It is craps roulette, slot machines and sports betting, etc. I used to support myself playing craps. I would keep my winnings to a minimum of $300 dollars a day. Smetimes I would make it in a half hout and other times a few hours. Unfortunately there are other vices that accompany it. Alcohol and cigarettes. I had to quit because it was a destructive behavior for me. The ummin and thummin were six sided stones (dice) that the Jews rolled to determine God's will. The twelve tribes each had their name on one side. That makes one ponder their decision process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 19, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Online Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 The ummin and thummin were six sided stones (dice) that the Jews rolled to determine God's will. The twelve tribes each had their name on one side. That makes one ponder their decision process. Since God spoke His will to the Jews with the ummin and thummin, it is hardly the same as tossing the dice in a casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I think we should all be very cautious before condemning gambling. Many of us take small risks with our money every day. For example, I invest in shares, for which there is no certain outcome. I take a measured risk, knowing the expected result but accepting that there is some randomness to it. Likewise when people invest in real estate. I think the principle of the bible is to be wise stewards of our money. Do not sink it into situations where there is excessive risk, but avoiding risk altogether by burying your money is also not a wise biblical idea. very good answer. i notice in this thread most people are thinking of traditional gambling, like cards and dice. me, i was thinking that there are other forms of gambling.... for instance, people who make their money playing games of skill, like pool. in every pool hall across america you can find some high stakes games going on with money riding on the outcome. no cheating. and not really "work" either. but your example of investing is far better of an example than billiards or other games where gambling takes place. and i agree with your last sentence too... you do have to take risks to be a god steward. and, i'm one of those who doesn't believe that gambling, in and of itself, is a sin. kinda makes me in the minority around here. still though, i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable saying that it's not a sin to make a living with some gamble or other. i guess that's why i'm not God, i'll leave that between the individual and Him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted April 19, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 545 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 116 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2011 I think we should all be very cautious before condemning gambling. Many of us take small risks with our money every day. For example, I invest in shares, for which there is no certain outcome. I take a measured risk, knowing the expected result but accepting that there is some randomness to it. Likewise when people invest in real estate. I think the principle of the bible is to be wise stewards of our money. Do not sink it into situations where there is excessive risk, but avoiding risk altogether by burying your money is also not a wise biblical idea. very good answer. i notice in this thread most people are thinking of traditional gambling, like cards and dice. me, i was thinking that there are other forms of gambling.... for instance, people who make their money playing games of skill, like pool. in every pool hall across america you can find some high stakes games going on with money riding on the outcome. no cheating. and not really "work" either. but your example of investing is far better of an example than billiards or other games where gambling takes place. and i agree with your last sentence too... you do have to take risks to be a god steward. and, i'm one of those who doesn't believe that gambling, in and of itself, is a sin. kinda makes me in the minority around here. still though, i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable saying that it's not a sin to make a living with some gamble or other. i guess that's why i'm not God, i'll leave that between the individual and Him! As there is no ordinance as such in Scripture in regard to gambling, we are left with liberty to choose and in doing so we are told not to judge others by our own conscience Cor 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? Rom 14:4 Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Posted April 20, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 147 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/19/1983 Share Posted April 20, 2011 gambling potentially is: by logical extension, distrusting God to provide, way of making money in case He does not provide all we need is rooted in greed, no? love of money is love of money, even if cause is or may seem noble by logical extension, a form of irresponsible stewardship; we were entrusted with everything we have, but gambling, since it involves risk of losing it(sometimes all of it), irresponsible stewardship by logical extension, a discontent with what God did provide, us wanting more all in all, i think it is always better not to get involved with gambling in any way, no matter how noble or justifiable it may seem. a job that provides enough can be found. or start your own business. First off the op was about makeing gambling your job. I.e. A professional poker player, not if it was sinful many threads tackle that issue. Also starting your own bussness is also at times considered a gamble. So what are we talking about when you define a gamble? Also sometimes greed is a motivator but with high stakes game its not the money but the thrill. Also if you win enough to make a living then it's not really a gamble! Those who try to win big that have no clue what they are doing lose. I grew up in a casino town I have seen it enough. If you can win more then you lose every time you are either a cheat, or are playing Poker and are good at reading people. Now as Candice has pointed out there are also calculated risk such as the stock market.. Some even gamble with this some are wise. Some are foolish . I also enjoy playing poker on my iPod with computer genereated chips that have no cash value just for fun.Does this make me a gambler and greedy? Does it take me into a seedy casino? Also as the Op said please back up with scripture yeah, i did read that part, but its kind of hard (or i am just too lazy) to find scriptural support for all i said(or any of it, i guess). ok, but why this for a job then? what i mean is, wouldn't it be dancing too close to the fire, flirting with danger? if you know you can handle, then sure, why not, sure, God can provide in different ways. but its just hard for me to picture Him wanting His children to make a living on poker, a game typical of secular crowd, a form of entertainment that is promoted by the world... Christians are supposed to be not conforming to the world's standard. that and i think(because i was taught so) that the game has questionable origins. nor does it sound like a scripturally supported form of entertainment. and it uses cards(from a game that again, i was told is of questionable origins). gambling potentially is: by logical extension, distrusting God to provide, way of making money in case He does not provide all we needis rooted in greed, no? love of money is love of money, even if cause is or may seem nobleby logical extension, a form of irresponsible stewardship; we were entrusted with everything we have, but gambling, since it involves risk of losing it(sometimes all of it), irresponsible stewardshipby logical extension, a discontent with what God did provide, us wanting more all in all, i think it is always better not to get involved with gambling in any way, no matter how noble or justifiable it may seem. a job that provides enough can be found. or start your own business. I'm not sure I agree with you here Aleksander . God can and often provides through our source of employment. People who run a business take risks and make profit. Is their profiteering a lack of trust in God's provision? I don't think it is. Many of us take risks every day with our money and it's not a lack of faith - just good stewardship. Earning an income isn't necessarily greed, infact those who don't provide for their family are shamed in scripture. Don't mistake love of money for the need to provide. Anyway, we see this from a totally different point of view it seems. Earning money and taking risks is not evil and contrary to biblical teaching, it is loving money and being irresponsible that are contrary. IMHO. To add to that in the parable of the talents the wise servants purchase items to increase the masters wealth with. The took a calculated risk and succeeded. However the servant who buried it and took no risk was thrown out! One question Aleksander do you think it is sinful to have wealth? business can be managed and maintained without taking risk; God provides all the customers, so there is no risk of losing customers, one will always have just enough. and if not, then maybe that business is not the right one. it is my understanding that in the parable of the talents, the servants invested money, not gambled with them by making a living from whatever their time's version of gambling was. also, i'd expect them to pick the investors that are most likely to return the money(and with profit) as i think their master would teach how to invest without risk and into who. all in all, i think my views are at the far end of the extreme, not a variable on the scale; no gambling means no gambling, but since there is gambling all around(some smaller forms of it anyway, as you guys point out), then all possible forms of gambling are to be avoided as much as possible. the world embraces it, so by default, we are not supposed to. in any way. do i think it is sinful to have wealth? theoretically, no it is not a sin, if you can handle the wealth and not fall into all the temptations associated with wealth, then no, it is not sin. however... and this is unnecessarily honest, yes i do: i don't see many righteous people with wealth, so it must be sinful thing since God is keeping it from His children, me in particular. maybe i look in all the wrong places, though and or have a wrong definition and or understanding of "righteous". moreover, the bigger one's purse or the more secure their financial situation is, the more i am inclined to wonder how "righteous" they are. and most Christian people i know are living a)barely making end meet(in my family's case anyway, and also this seems to be the pattern especially true the closer you are to God's will: David did not see a righteous man go hungry, but i don't see those normally considered "righteous" in much of wealth), or b)within the means, and or c)slightly over either of those. but i guess the closer you are to God's ideal, the more likely the chance of sin associated with wealth arises, so the wealth is just another needless dancing close to the fire. You know what? actually yes, wealth is THAT important to me even though You don't agree with it being THAT important. and i know since You don't agree with it, You keep this wealth from me for that reason alone(that and so to beat me into a more correct version of what i am supposed to be). measure of wealth is supposedly a measure of how much You favor, or don't favor, someone, so it kind of makes me wonder. and besides that, princes are SUPPOSED to be wealthy... unless they are not princes in the first place or are for whatever reason You see fit are denied what is theirs(unless it is not their to begin with... ah, the beauty of ambiguity and fine print). but that's not the point. the question was if i think it is a sin or not, and as it stands, i do. or thought i did; in a light of these, hm, evidence You are presenting me with, i think its only fair to say that me thinking gambling is a sin and wealth is a sin is nothing but a result, effect part of cause and effect, my not agreeing with You being the cause. what i do or don't think never really mattered to You anyway though, so i don't see why You need to put on a show here now. and yes i know i'll have to answer for my words... but that's what i get for doing what i am supposed to do, be honest. oh whatever, to hell with wealth, i don't need it for survival, don't really need it, and as we both know, i was bought on that gospel of prosperity and since that is not how Christian me is supposed to roll then to hell with this wealth, i just hope to survive, hope i won't die. there is a lot that i am not telling You... i can't afford to because at any one time i can only take so much a beating(correction, discipline, whatever You want to call it, its all the same rod, same on this end, same pain and Your intention to correct, as opposed to punishing the wrongdoing, is not much of a consolation, it hurts still and i am hurt from hurting, for whatever the cause) for a each new wrong thing i say. maybe when i lick my wounds and they heal some then i can say more... there is only so much i can move closer to the wall, after i'll have to be climbing it, which i can't do. yeah, not even You will keep that from happening, i have to reap what i saw, and telling things as is does just that, planting that which i do not want to saw, beating. Your fire withers and burns many things, but not the beating, these consequences that spring up, from planting the seeds that express my discontent and or disagreement with Your... even for the purpose of venting. well, actually that's not true, when it was solely for the purpose of venting it burned them i guess. or i think it did, i don't know. i'd rather not have to say anything else right now, though, i am afraid for myself enough as it is, i'd rather not call more fire onto my head than already is coming... sigh. You bet i don't want to get any closer, it burns and hurts enough as it is, maybe when i heal some then You can come back and correct me more. after some considering and doing some unpleasant admitting of things to myself, i have to admit i was better off not posting that post without providing some scriptural l support, as it was requested... i did post it anyway because of pride, i just wanted to voice myself. i have to admit i was just posting that to make myself feel better about my own fault by openly condemning in others(including you AyinJade) that which i myself have a weakness for. or maybe i think i do. whatever the case, i am sadly not beyond jumping at condemning things i don't not agree with, and if i think i might have them myself, then even more so eager to condemn them. make myself feel better about my faults at expense of others, intentionally going through with it knowing that since you all are obligated to forgive, you would. not very humble and not nice of me. arrogant, too, to assume that you AyinJade would have this weakness to gambling. all i can say is sorry for the disgraceful display everyone, i wish it never happened and i wish i didn't go through with it baking on your sure bet forgivingness. i am kind disgusted with myself, too. i think these guys sums me up well right now: I think we should all be very cautious before condemning gambling. Many of us take small risks with our money every day. For example, I invest in shares, for which there is no certain outcome. I take a measured risk, knowing the expected result but accepting that there is some randomness to it. Likewise when people invest in real estate. I think the principle of the bible is to be wise stewards of our money. Do not sink it into situations where there is excessive risk, but avoiding risk altogether by burying your money is also not a wise biblical idea. very good answer. i notice in this thread most people are thinking of traditional gambling, like cards and dice. me, i was thinking that there are other forms of gambling.... for instance, people who make their money playing games of skill, like pool. in every pool hall across america you can find some high stakes games going on with money riding on the outcome. no cheating. and not really "work" either. but your example of investing is far better of an example than billiards or other games where gambling takes place. and i agree with your last sentence too... you do have to take risks to be a god steward. and, i'm one of those who doesn't believe that gambling, in and of itself, is a sin. kinda makes me in the minority around here. still though, i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable saying that it's not a sin to make a living with some gamble or other. i guess that's why i'm not God, i'll leave that between the individual and Him! maybe it is not, since hon-human things(like music, a gun, etc) tend to be not a sin in and of itself, and sin some of that which what humans make of those objects. but then this leaves room to debate smoking and drinking and who knows what else. yeah, i should have done that too. I think we should all be very cautious before condemning gambling. Many of us take small risks with our money every day. For example, I invest in shares, for which there is no certain outcome. I take a measured risk, knowing the expected result but accepting that there is some randomness to it. Likewise when people invest in real estate. I think the principle of the bible is to be wise stewards of our money. Do not sink it into situations where there is excessive risk, but avoiding risk altogether by burying your money is also not a wise biblical idea. very good answer. i notice in this thread most people are thinking of traditional gambling, like cards and dice. me, i was thinking that there are other forms of gambling.... for instance, people who make their money playing games of skill, like pool. in every pool hall across america you can find some high stakes games going on with money riding on the outcome. no cheating. and not really "work" either. but your example of investing is far better of an example than billiards or other games where gambling takes place. and i agree with your last sentence too... you do have to take risks to be a god steward. and, i'm one of those who doesn't believe that gambling, in and of itself, is a sin. kinda makes me in the minority around here. still though, i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable saying that it's not a sin to make a living with some gamble or other. i guess that's why i'm not God, i'll leave that between the individual and Him! As there is no ordinance as such in Scripture in regard to gambling, we are left with liberty to choose and in doing so we are told not to judge others by our own conscience Cor 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? Rom 14:4 Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand. hm, that is the liberty allowed to us and i should have allowed OP to use that liberty, without making my zealous accusations that were based on my own faults. this whole thing sort of reminds me of what i was reading about today is Isaiah 6 and how it goes in accord with a verse from 2nd Corinthians 3:18. for chapter 6 of Isaia, as we look at God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 20, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,229 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,485 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It is tenderly given in all that you have spoken of here how we have not the wisdom, in and of ourselves, to pick our way upon the individual ways our Lord has set us upon but oh the beauty are the children of His Presence... The only risk-less choice we can choose is Him (Christ Jesus) and after chosen choose no other... Love not the world or the things in it for Christ has spoken to us as friends and told us His plans to burn it all up and has done so that we would not place our affections upon the temporary but upon Him for the eternities... A New Place He is making Special for us His Bride.... Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Posted April 21, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 147 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/19/1983 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It is tenderly given in all that you have spoken of here how we have not the wisdom, in and of ourselves, to pick our way upon the individual ways our Lord has set us upon but oh the beauty are the children of His Presence... The only risk-less choice we can choose is Him (Christ Jesus) and after chosen choose no other... Love not the world or the things in it for Christ has spoken to us as friends and told us His plans to burn it all up and has done so that we would not place our affections upon the temporary but upon Him for the eternities... A New Place He is making Special for us His Bride.... Love Steven i am not sure i understand that part. after the past years and the recent increased stress on conquering fear of death... i wonder if 2011 is my year... i am by no mean ready. even as i sit here and type this i am feeling uneasy, and uneasy talking about my fear of death that is supposed to be irrational fear now and my struggles of trying to conquer this fear of death. but this is way off topic... i think its time i took my own advice i posted elsewhere and redefined my own deophobic mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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