Why Choose Christianity?

[Guest]

But you still haven't mentioned how a heart is transformed. It takes more than choice of will to do that.

Of course it's not just a choice of will, but a blessing from God:

58 O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts,- and for those who believe, a guidance and a Mercy. 58 Say: "In the bounty of Allah. And in His Mercy,- in that let them rejoice": that is better than the (wealth) they hoard.

But what do you mean by the word " how "? Well, this can come by many ways, reading the Quran deeply, praying to Allah humbly, knowing my weakness and my need to Him, by supplication to Him to accept me. Of course these things must be made with all my sense not as a routine for God to accept it.

A Blessing From God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

A Curse From Men

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? John 5:25

A Choice For You

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Choose Wisely

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[A Muslim]

Why didn't Jesus tell that instead of Paul? You'd better see my link here:

https://sites.google...m/didhedieforus

It was written. He came to fulfill what had been prophesied of Him from Genesis (3:15) to Malachi (4):

* Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, Till the heaven and the earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any way pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. (Mat 5:17-18)

They knew Messiah was coming. They knew what Messiah was all about:

* But when Herod the king heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said to him, In Bethlehem of Judea. For so it is written by the prophet, … (Mat 2:3-5)

* He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being translated, the Christ). (Joh_1:41)

* The woman said to Him, I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ. When He has come, He will tell us all things. Jesus said to her, I AM, the One speaking to you. (Joh 4:25-26)

* He said to them, But who do you say I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered and said to him, You are blessed, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven. (Mat 16:15-17)

Some believed Him, some did not. Some were a faithful remnant, some were not. As it was written:

* But He answered and said to them, Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honours Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. However, they worship Me in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Mat 7:6-7)

* And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "By hearing you shall hear and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see and shall not perceive; for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Mat 13:14-15)

* And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting. And when He had made a scourge of small cords, He drove them all out of the temple, also the sheep and the oxen. And He poured out the money-changers' money and overthrew the tables. And He said to those who sold doves, Take these things away from here. Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise. And His disciples remembered that it was written, "The zeal of Your house has eaten Me up." (Joh 2:13-17)

Therefore, He spoke in parables:

* And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables? He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand. (Mat 13:10-11)

* ... Master, we want to see a sign from you. But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. And there shall be no sign given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the huge fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Mat 12:38-40)

Until such a time when His full revelation would be preached:

* I have spoken these things to you in parables, but the time is coming when I shall no more speak to you in parables, but I will show you plainly of the Father. (Joh_16:25)

* You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you. And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me. And you also shall bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning. (Joh 15:16, 26-27)

He taught He had to die, though; as it was written:

* This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:12-13)

* The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory? And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. (Luk 9:22, 24:26-27)

* Jesus said to them, Did you never read in the Scriptures, "The stone which the builders rejected, this One has become the head of the corner; this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?" (Mat. 21:42)

As for Paul, he was ordained to bear witness:

* ... For this one is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before nations and kings and the sons of Israel. (Act 9:15)

And his writings were considered inspired, therefore, Scripture; that is, Jesus was talking through him:

* And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation (as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him) (2Pet. 3:15)

* For prophecy was not borne at any time by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke being borne along by the Holy Spirit. (2Pet. 1:21)

It may have happened that Jesus made some allusions to the concept of dying for people's sins in the NT, but actually these allusions and so brief in a manner that doesn't meet with a major belief that has to be stated deliberately. Besides, I still see this theory against reason and I have asked many questions about it through early posts. Also, I still see that some verses don't match with that point as John 17:4 and verses in Ezekiel talking about forgiving sins, besides I don't see Jesus gave a link between this theory and the OT. I have already discussed these points with nebula, you can see the conversation and if you have any additional comment, I would have the pleasure to see.

Edited June 16, 2011 by A Muslim

[A Muslim]

Hi A Muslim -

I thank you for your well-thought out responses. But unfortunately, I am no longer going to be able to put the time in needed to continue discussion. Basically, I am juggling too many responsibilities at this time.

As you like, it was a nice conversation.

But from what I am seeing with this debate, it seems that we all are merely going in circles around each other.

The problem is we are debating the merits of our faiths while our cores are at odds. But it is the cores we each are holding onto, not the merits.

You see, we regard the Bible to the same degree you regard the Koran, and we have no more regard for the Koran than you do the Bible.

Likewise, we have no more regard for Mohammed than you do for the Apostle Paul and those you are convinced "corrupted the Bible" - which we are convinced did not happen.

Agree

Have you ever gotten a personal word from Allah? Has Allah ever spoken directly and personally to you with words, thoughts, visions?

I don't believe that this would happen, the question is, how do you make sure that the one appearing to you is Jesus not the Satan?

I know what it is to operate in the spiritual gifts. The only thing more exciting that another person prophesying over you is to be used of the Lord to prophecy into another person' life.

Have you ever been given a prophetic word to give to another?

My prophetic word is the Quran but revelation has ended since the death of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) because it is not open for everyone to add anything and claim things according to his ego. Visions may occur, and miracles may occur as well, not of Allah but for Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and righteous people, and if they are against the Scriptures, they shouldn't be looked at, as they will be from the Satan. They can just happen as a support. I am saying so because there are some streams in Islam which are deluded by these types of visions, I see these things are kinds of support but not a base and not necessary that they would happen. I seek righteousness and following the right solid belief not visions or miracles.

Blessings!

Nice to meet you.

[Fez]

A Muslim, who are you trying to convince and of what?

[A Muslim]

Apparantly you missed my question. Once again, How can one go from this life to the next without God's righteousness being satisfied?

I didn't miss your question, I don't see God's righteousness unsatisfied. If a man made a sin and then faithfully repented, God will forgive him, this concept is present in Islam, in the OT and in the NT as I illustrated in the examples I mentioned above.

Were does it show that repenting is enough to satisify God's righteousness. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission/forgiveness of sin. So once again, based on this requirement. If it were about good deeds, and even just asking God to forgive you, how is His righteousness satisfied.

I have already posted the verse in Ezekiel 18

Furthermore, how is ones nature dealth with? Sins are not just actions that are done but there are apart of who were are. We talk about mankind being sinners and not perfect...Why? Why are we sinners and not perfect? What makes us this way? If we are this way now, what will cause us not to take that very same nature into the next life?

We will always have this nature otherwise you won't have sinned again, do you? All what we are asked to do is to have faith in God, do good deeds and avoid sins as much as we can and repent from sins and God will forgive them.

[Jorge S]

It may have happened that Jesus made some allusions to the concept of dying for people's sins in the NT, but actually these allusions and so brief in a manner that doesn't meet with a major belief that has to be stated deliberately.

Allusions!? I would say fulfillment. It was prophesied from the beginning in the Garden of Eden and continuously expanded and reiterated for 4 thousand years, prefigured with the implementation of the Mosaic Covenant, addressed by Jesus before and after His crucifixion, alluded to by the apostles and first disciples (Acts), and finally wrapped up by Paul (Romans, Colossians) and the author of Hebrews.

There are over a hundred prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament addressing all aspects and significance of His life, ministry and death. Jesus did not have to add anything but to fulfill what was written and expected of Him. That is why He constantly referred His hearers back to Scripture. The faithful Jews who were not contaminated by the corrupted religion of those days accepted Him as the promised Messiah and were baptized into the New Covenant. Many other signs followed suite, like the coming of the Holy Spirit, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple and the universal dissemination of the Gospel.

... I still see this theory against reason ...

Then ask God to give you understanding. Jesus' atonement for sin is not a theory but the fulfillment of God's perfect justice, love and mercy.

I wrote the following answer last year to a poster who asked why Jesus had to die. Perhaps it will entice you to make your own - prayerful - biblical research:

"We often forget that God is not only inherently good, loving, almighty, omniscient and sovereign but also perfectly just and immutable. He is our Law-Giver and Supreme Judge Whose commandments have to be respected or else we incur the consequences of His Wrath. He is not pleased by sin neither yesterday nor today nor ever. Sin is essentially a transgression of His precepts and its wages is death (Rom 6:23, Eze 18:4), as the first couple was made aware in the Garden (Gen 2:17).

On that fateful day when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they gave God no other option but to make a ruling. Their disobedience had to be dealt with on the judicial terms the Lord had set out before. They died, first spiritually (that is, null and void as covenant allies, expelled from God's Presence) then physically, as they were denied access to the Tree of Life (Gen 3:22-23).

It also happened that the earth was cursed and an animal was sacrificed to clothe the disobedient couple now aware --and ashamed -- of their nakedness before their Creator (Gen 3). And something else happened: a Redeemer was promised as the seed of the woman. (Gen 3:15)

The original sin led to more sin due to its expansive nature. Even the global flood of Noah's times did not hamper the dissemination of lawlessness and decay. So here is the situation, we are all natural sinners (Rom 3:23, 1Jn 1:8) by ancestry (e.g. descendants of a sinful couple), born outside any covenant with God into a cursed world that is set for a final destruction and renewal. (Isa 65:17, 66:22; 2Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1-7)

How can sin be atoned for? By shedding of blood. Because life -the very thing that sin will cost you- is in the blood (Lev 17:11), only the shedding of blood can remit sin (Heb 9:22). During the Old Testament times this was done by a complicated system of animal sacrifices centered on physical structures (improvised altars in the wilderness, at the tabernacle in the tent of the congregation and at the Jerusalem temple.) With the arrival of the prophesied Messiah the ultimate, eternal and definitive sacrifice was centered on the Person of Jesus Christ.

Jesus willingly descended to us as a human, lived a blameless life and submitted Himself to an ignominious, undeserved death for our sake. That is, being innocent of any charge He died as a sinner to take our penalty. He then stands before the Father as our Mediator, He reconciles us back to Him. The costly debt Adam incurred for all of us, of which God's Justice demanded a refund, has been fully paid by Jesus. Therefore, the sins of those who appeal to Jesus can be forgiven. The blood of Jesus washes away the sin of Adam."

[nebula]

Have you ever gotten a personal word from Allah? Has Allah ever spoken directly and personally to you with words, thoughts, visions?

I don't believe that this would happen, the question is, how do you make sure that the one appearing to you is Jesus not the Satan?

OK, since you asked a question, I'll answer.

Well, He kept me from committing suicide, provoked me to love Him and the Father more, broke through some bondages I was oppressed with, things like that.

Also, when people have spoken "words of knowledge" and "words of revelation" over me I could tell it was the Lord because they broke chains of bondages from me as well.

Would Satan cast out Satan?

Jesus told us to examine fruits, and the fruits speak volumes.

Something else, with "words of knowledge" and "words of revelation" I have spoken to others and others have spoken to me, quite often either confirms or uncovers what was hidden in the heart or things the Lord had been placing in their heart or it puts pieces together they or I were puzzling over. Things like that.

(Just so you know, when I previously said "prophecy/ prophesied" these were not foretelling the future but revealing what was concealed with regards to current situations.

Edited June 17, 2011 by nebula

[Guest shiloh357]

Of course it's not just a choice of will, but a blessing from God:

58 O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts,- and for those who believe, a guidance and a Mercy. 58 Say: "In the bounty of Allah. And in His Mercy,- in that let them rejoice": that is better than the (wealth) they hoard.

But what do you mean by the word " how "? Well, this can come by many ways, reading the Quran deeply, praying to Allah humbly, knowing my weakness and my need to Him, by supplication to Him to accept me. Of course these things must be made with all my sense not as a routine for God to accept it.

So how do you know when you have done enough? How do you know when your heart is transformed? How much praying and Ouran study does it take to accomplish this?

I never said that it will be enough because it will NEVER be enough as all my works are nothing compared to Allah's blessings, but I should do good deeds as much as I can till I die and God will send me to Heaven by His mercy not by my works.

What are the role of works in Islam? When you die are your works judged? In your religion are your good works weighed against your evil works, or is there something else? If it is his mercy that sends you to heaven, why are you required to do good works?

[methinkshe]

Every time I look at this thead and the continuing debate I have been challenged to offer the following texts but have so far resisted. But I can do so no longer.

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit

[Guest]

I don't believe that this would happen, the question is, how do you make sure that the one appearing to you is Jesus not the Satan?

The Book

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:1-10

Tells The Truth About Satan's Lies About The Book

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said... Yea, hath God said.... ? Genesis 3:1(a-d)

Got Book?

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160