ayin jade Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2011 No, it was brought up because original sin was an underlying assumption, that anyone born gay was because they were born corrupt do to our corrupt natures. My response was that babies are born innocent. Original sin comes into play because of the fallen nature of the world around us, not because of some kind of sin the baby was born with. This, by the way, is the Eastern Orthodox understanding of original sin. Just thought I would point that out before someone accused the view of being New Age. Psalm 51 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Genesis 5 1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them. And He called their name man in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and fathered a son in his own likeness, after his own image. And he called his name Seth. Notice that originally man was created in the image of God. Then after the fall, children are born in the image of man. Fallen man. Not innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. If they are lusting in their minds for each other, God considers that the same as doing the deed. Jesus said, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28) That condemnation applies to straight, as well as homosexual, people. Remember, God also judges our thoughts and intents of the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Candice, Yeah I think we agree. I was just addressing that you said homosexuality was a choice 100% of the time, its probably semantics, but I would call someone a homosexual who was burdened with these temptations. I mean I am not burdened with any temptations to other men so for me it seems nuts to be tempted by that and it is easy to resist! I mean I do really well in resisting gay temptations because for me they don't exist! Other temptations well they are harder for me. But I do agree with you. We are not talking about temptations. We are talking about willful and repetitive sin. A homosexual has no choice but to have sex? Right. It is just a matter of what you are tempted to do. Certainly someone who is burdened with homosexual temptations does have a choice not to act on those or to indulge them. I would classify that person as a homosexual particularly if he is only attracted to people of the same sex. I think sexuality is much much more complex than just saying well if you are gay you are gay, no way is that true. People have a range of sexual temptations and desires, some okay some not. I don't think it is nearly as hardwired as the gay lobby insists that it is. Many gay people don't want to be gay, they want to be free of this and this is who I really worry about when a church like this one says hey its all cool its a gift. I mentioned earlier it is like saying to a person who has depression or schizophrenia, hey its a gift enjoy it, there is no need for us to help you or pray for your healing. To me it is a faith issue that this church simply gives up on Christ and His power to heal people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,377 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,555 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 4, 2011 It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. If they are lusting in their minds for each other, God considers that the same as doing the deed. Jesus said, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28) That condemnation applies to straight, as well as homosexual, people. Remember, God also judges our thoughts and intents of the heart. That is why I could never understand the tin man!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Candice, Yeah I think we agree. I was just addressing that you said homosexuality was a choice 100% of the time, its probably semantics, but I would call someone a homosexual who was burdened with these temptations. I mean I am not burdened with any temptations to other men so for me it seems nuts to be tempted by that and it is easy to resist! I mean I do really well in resisting gay temptations because for me they don't exist! Other temptations well they are harder for me. But I do agree with you. We are not talking about temptations. We are talking about willful and repetitive sin. A homosexual has no choice but to have sex? Perhaps there is some confusion here because Byron was discussing the difference between those who act on their temptations, and those who don't. This spurred a discussion on temptation. 1 Cor 10:13 makes is crystal clear that a homosexual can resist. 1 Cor 6:9-11 makes it crystal clear that they should resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2011 Perhaps there is some confusion here because Byron was discussing the difference between those who act on their temptations, and those who don't. This spurred a discussion on temptation. 1 Cor 10:13 makes is crystal clear that a homosexual can resist. 1 Cor 6:9-11 makes it crystal clear that they should resist. And this pastor says they shouldn't resist, because their temptations are a gift from God. The same God who says homosexuality is an abomination. Byron says he does not think that this Pastor is endorsing or encouraging sin. Byron also said he has no problem with homosexual acts if the couple is monogamous and 'married,' even though they cannot be married, biblically-speaking. Both assertions are false. So Byron may or may not be confused. One thing is clear, however, he is 100% wrong on both counts. Is 5 20Woe to those who (AE)call evil good, and good evil; Who (AF)substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21Woe to those who are (AG)wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yes a homosexual can resist and so can a person who is having an affair or leaving their marriage. The thing is I was thinking about this do we say the same things we say to gay people to people who are living in sinful marriages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yes a homosexual can resist and so can a person who is having an affair or leaving their marriage. The thing is I was thinking about this do we say the same things we say to gay people to people who are living in sinful marriages? I sure do. But where is the Husbands and Wives for Adultery organizations like the gay organizations promoting their sinful lusts? Homosexuals are pushing to have their sin accepted. So we are vehement that its a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron A Posted May 4, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1987 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Perhaps there is some confusion here because Byron was discussing the difference between those who act on their temptations, and those who don't. This spurred a discussion on temptation. 1 Cor 10:13 makes is crystal clear that a homosexual can resist. 1 Cor 6:9-11 makes it crystal clear that they should resist. And this pastor says they shouldn't resist, because their temptations are a gift from God. The same God who says homosexuality is an abomination. Byron says he does not think that this Pastor is endorsing or encouraging sin. Byron also said he has no problem with homosexual acts if the couple is monogamous and 'married,' even though they cannot be married, biblically-speaking. Both assertions are false. So Byron may or may not be confused. One thing is clear, however, he is 100% wrong on both counts. Can you quote to me where I said that? I think my words have either been twisted or misunderstood somewhere, because I NEVER gave approval for gay marriage on this forum, or even addressed gay marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Perhaps there is some confusion here because Byron was discussing the difference between those who act on their temptations, and those who don't. This spurred a discussion on temptation. 1 Cor 10:13 makes is crystal clear that a homosexual can resist. 1 Cor 6:9-11 makes it crystal clear that they should resist. And this pastor says they shouldn't resist, because their temptations are a gift from God. The same God who says homosexuality is an abomination. Byron says he does not think that this Pastor is endorsing or encouraging sin. Byron also said he has no problem with homosexual acts if the couple is monogamous and 'married,' even though they cannot be married, biblically-speaking. Both assertions are false. So Byron may or may not be confused. One thing is clear, however, he is 100% wrong on both counts. Can you quote to me where I said that? I think my words have either been twisted or misunderstood somewhere, because I NEVER gave approval for gay marriage on this forum, or even addressed gay marriages. If you interpret the Bible using context and the analogy of Faith (a basic hermeneutical tool that interprets a scripture with other scriptures), you will see that only certain types of homosexuality are condemned. For example, in Genesis story with Sodom and Gommorah, its not a case of simple homosexuality, but rather gang-rape. In Leviticus passages, the Torah is condemning same-sex temple prostitution. The term that most translate as homosexual in Paul's epistles is a vague term that no one today knows the meaning of because Paul coined the term. Back in Martin Luther's day, they all thought it meant masturbator. Yes, there are a few other passages that people use to condemn homosexuality. Use the Analogy of faith and context to read them with fresh eyes. You will see if you read each passage objectively, that each passage only condemns certain homosexual practices. The bible is silent on monogamous loving relationships! God bless you and have a good day! I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives. Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts