Called Romans 8:28

[Fez]

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Would anyone like to explain what the bolded part of the scripture means. Too many Christians like to quote the first part of the passage, and omit the second. Although I know it is pivotal to the verse I am not sure if it is a predestination thing, or just that we work according to His purpose and thus our work provides fruit?

I see it a bit differently. What is being "called according to His purpose" mean? What is our "calling"? In 2 Peter 1:5-11, we see we are to be even more diligent to make your call and election sure. If we are attempting to do work outside of our calling, we will not prosper and may stumble. If we are working in our calling, He will make sure it works together for the good.

Ok I can agree with that, but we need to define "our calling" a bit. I bet there are quiet a few opinions of what it might be.

Eph 1:5

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (sonship) by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

This is the calling in which we are called. Make this calling and election sure. Are you a child of God...live like one.

Ok then what do you make of this verse?

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

[Guest Butero]

ROMANS 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you love God, you are called according to his purpose. The question is, has everyone been called according to his purpose, yet some rejected him? I used to hold to that position, but I don't now. I believe that those who God called will be saved. Let's look at verse 29. It says God foreknew those who would love God. He is also our creator, so there is a fine line between simply knowing who would be saved, and creating some to be saved. That means he foreknew those who would reject him and hate him, yet he still created them.

Verse 29 goes on to say that those he foreknew would love God were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It doesn't say everyone on the face of the earth were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It is Jesus that is the firstborn among many brethren. He is as our elder brother.

Verse 30 says those who are predestinated were called of God. Again, the question is, was everyone called of God or just those who were predestinated to be called? It sure appears to me God is 100 percent in control over whether we are a believer or an unbeliever? If you are one of his, you were justified. The word justified is from the Greek word dikaioo, and it means to regard as just or innocent. Of course, nobody would be perfect in the sight of God on our own. It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin, and God lookes at the blood washed Christians as just in his sight. The final thing he says about those who love God is that they are glorified. The word glorified is from the Greek word doxazo, and it means to render or esteem glorious, honour, magnify. As a Christian, you are actually exaulted above those in the world, at least in the sight of God.

In answer to the original question asked in this thread, I most definately do think pre-destination comes into play in Romans 8:28. This has always been among my favorite verses, because it makes it clear that no matter what you are going through, if you belong to God, the trial will somehow be turned around for your good. You may not see it immediately, but that will be the end result.

[eph215]

ROMANS 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you love God, you are called according to his purpose. The question is, has everyone been called according to his purpose, yet some rejected him? I used to hold to that position, but I don't now. I believe that those who God called will be saved. Let's look at verse 29. It says God foreknew those who would love God. He is also our creator, so there is a fine line between simply knowing who would be saved, and creating some to be saved. That means he foreknew those who would reject him and hate him, yet he still created them.

Verse 29 goes on to say that those he foreknew would love God were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It doesn't say everyone on the face of the earth were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It is Jesus that is the firstborn among many brethren. He is as our elder brother.

Verse 30 says those who are predestinated were called of God. Again, the question is, was everyone called of God or just those who were predestinated to be called? It sure appears to me God is 100 percent in control over whether we are a believer or an unbeliever? If you are one of his, you were justified. The word justified is from the Greek word dikaioo, and it means to regard as just or innocent. Of course, nobody would be perfect in the sight of God on our own. It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin, and God lookes at the blood washed Christians as just in his sight. The final thing he says about those who love God is that they are glorified. The word glorified is from the Greek word doxazo, and it means to render or esteem glorious, honour, magnify. As a Christian, you are actually exaulted above those in the world, at least in the sight of God.

In answer to the original question asked in this thread, I most definately do think pre-destination comes into play in Romans 8:28. This has always been among my favorite verses, because it makes it clear that no matter what you are going through, if you belong to God, the trial will somehow be turned around for your good. You may not see it immediately, but that will be the end result.

The what about Matthew 18:14? - God is not willing that ANY should perish (my paraphrase). If it's all predestined then He seems rather willing that some should perish. And that makes Matthew 28:19 meaningless - why bother making disciples of all men if all been decided beforehand.

So I think everyone is called but not everyone listens. The Psalms make references to 'the shadow of God's wings', it's where we find protection and shelter but the unspoken implication is that we can stray from that shelter and if we do then we're on our own. In the same way, if I don't listen to the call then I can't very well claim the promise attached to that call.

[mizzdy]

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Would anyone like to explain what the bolded part of the scripture means. Too many Christians like to quote the first part of the passage, and omit the second. Although I know it is pivotal to the verse I am not sure if it is a predestination thing, or just that we work according to His purpose and thus our work provides fruit?

Called, to be invited, who are called to partake in whatever one has been invited to do, that would be to go out and teach people about Him to teach His whole word to the nations. When I looked up purpose I find a reference to the showbread, exposed before God is one of the definitions. We are invited by Him to serve His will, when we do that we are set apart, follow His ways and work to further the teaching of His word and His kingdom. We fulfill what He calls us to do. Some I believe are called out for higher functions within the body, and if that is true then couldn't that calling in Matt. 22 be what is spoken of also? We all have our roles in His body, none is more important than the other yet some have higher functions. And lets face it many say they have answered His call but no fruit can be seen in them, we cannot pick and choose what it is He wants in the way of obedience and furthering the kingdom we need to allow Him to send us out to place us.

I just couldn't get the idea of purpose out of my head and how it relates to the showbread so I looked into Thayers and saw below. Isn't it interesting, well to me, that His purpose or the meaning behind it, is to be placed upon the table in His presence or exposed to God. Well now that probably didn't help any at all!

G4286

πρόθεσις

prothesis

Thayer Definition:

1) a setting forth of a thing, placing of it in view, the shewbread

1a) twelve loaves of wheaten bread, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel, which loaves were offered to God every Sabbath, and separated into two rows, lay for seven days upon a table placed in the sanctuary or front portion of the tabernacle, and afterwards of the temple

2) a purpose

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer

[Guest Butero]

ROMANS 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you love God, you are called according to his purpose. The question is, has everyone been called according to his purpose, yet some rejected him? I used to hold to that position, but I don't now. I believe that those who God called will be saved. Let's look at verse 29. It says God foreknew those who would love God. He is also our creator, so there is a fine line between simply knowing who would be saved, and creating some to be saved. That means he foreknew those who would reject him and hate him, yet he still created them.

Verse 29 goes on to say that those he foreknew would love God were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It doesn't say everyone on the face of the earth were predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. It is Jesus that is the firstborn among many brethren. He is as our elder brother.

Verse 30 says those who are predestinated were called of God. Again, the question is, was everyone called of God or just those who were predestinated to be called? It sure appears to me God is 100 percent in control over whether we are a believer or an unbeliever? If you are one of his, you were justified. The word justified is from the Greek word dikaioo, and it means to regard as just or innocent. Of course, nobody would be perfect in the sight of God on our own. It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin, and God lookes at the blood washed Christians as just in his sight. The final thing he says about those who love God is that they are glorified. The word glorified is from the Greek word doxazo, and it means to render or esteem glorious, honour, magnify. As a Christian, you are actually exaulted above those in the world, at least in the sight of God.

In answer to the original question asked in this thread, I most definately do think pre-destination comes into play in Romans 8:28. This has always been among my favorite verses, because it makes it clear that no matter what you are going through, if you belong to God, the trial will somehow be turned around for your good. You may not see it immediately, but that will be the end result.

The what about Matthew 18:14? - God is not willing that ANY should perish (my paraphrase). If it's all predestined then He seems rather willing that some should perish. And that makes Matthew 28:19 meaningless - why bother making disciples of all men if all been decided beforehand.

So I think everyone is called but not everyone listens. The Psalms make references to 'the shadow of God's wings', it's where we find protection and shelter but the unspoken implication is that we can stray from that shelter and if we do then we're on our own. In the same way, if I don't listen to the call then I can't very well claim the promise attached to that call.

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

He is speaking of his sheep. Not everyone in the world.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

How is that made meaningless? Those who are to be saved will receive the message of the gospel.

[Fez]

ruck, I am not trying to be obtuse, please understand.

I am just trying to get my head around "chosen according to His purpose".

Although I am getting some good stuff from the post, I am still not certain what Paul meant by the phrase, even given the next few verses that Butero discusses in his reply and Mizzdy continues with.

Predestination (if that is what this is), is a hugely complicated subject, and I have read books like Sproul's "Chosen by God", but am still a bit confused.

Understand that this confusion has nothing to do with my faith, it is just that I kinda like to understand stuff.

[Fez]

ruck, I am not trying to be obtuse, please understand.

I am just trying to get my head around "chosen according to His purpose".

Although I am getting some good stuff from the post, I am still not certain what Paul meant by the phrase, even given the next few verses that Butero discusses in his reply and Mizzdy continues with.

Predestination (if that is what this is), is a hugely complicated subject, and I have read books like Sproul's "Chosen by God", but am still a bit confused.

Understand that this confusion has nothing to do with my faith, it is just that I kinda like to understand stuff.

I'm with you give me a bit and I will give you a story. It may be sometime tonight my time, so you may read it later.

Ok. it's nearly midnight here anyway

[OneLight]

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Would anyone like to explain what the bolded part of the scripture means. Too many Christians like to quote the first part of the passage, and omit the second. Although I know it is pivotal to the verse I am not sure if it is a predestination thing, or just that we work according to His purpose and thus our work provides fruit?

I see it a bit differently. What is being "called according to His purpose" mean? What is our "calling"? In 2 Peter 1:5-11, we see we are to be even more diligent to make your call and election sure. If we are attempting to do work outside of our calling, we will not prosper and may stumble. If we are working in our calling, He will make sure it works together for the good.

Ok I can agree with that, but we need to define "our calling" a bit. I bet there are quiet a few opinions of what it might be.

I see our calling as a ministry, as in what we are called to do in Christ. The following gives a list of what has been set up in His church.

1 Cor 12:27-30

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

If we follow the steps in 2 Peter 1:5-11, we will know what our calling and election is. Notice that these verses don't hint that just a few are called and elected.

[mizzdy]

ruck, I am not trying to be obtuse, please understand.

I am just trying to get my head around "chosen according to His purpose".

Although I am getting some good stuff from the post, I am still not certain what Paul meant by the phrase, even given the next few verses that Butero discusses in his reply and Mizzdy continues with.

Predestination (if that is what this is), is a hugely complicated subject, and I have read books like Sproul's "Chosen by God", but am still a bit confused.

Understand that this confusion has nothing to do with my faith, it is just that I kinda like to understand stuff.

Chosen for what is a good way to start, what is His purpose? When God knew He was going to call out a nation for Himself to show the world His glory, His love and grace He did so by one man, one family, they were known to Him before hand. Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Pharoah even, all these men were chosen for His purposes. If we go back to Numbers and read how Moses was chosen, Aaron and his sons set aside for His purposes its not too hard to see the purpose as to why they were chosen. The priesthood was called out to serve Him and His called out one. We are no different are we? When He calls and we obey we are being chosen according to His purposes, sometimes we know and refuse, we find out later in life even or we don't maybe realize we are fulfilling it. We have a responsiblity just as Aaron and his sons had, to take care of the body, to take care to reach out to the lost and searching, to teach others His word.

In the story of Korah we see how he complained that they were just as special as Aarons sons, that all of Israel were indeed special to God and he was right, yet he complained about his role in Gods scheme of things he was jealous of the roles of Aaron. God called Moses and Aaron to serve Him in positions that He appointed to them, thats how I see chosen for His purposes. We are all priests set to serve Him and teach others in what roles He sets forth. The whole story of Moses seems to show a bit of how God looks at this notion of 'predestination' although it was always Moses choice to do or not wouldn't you think? Not sure if that helped or not either Fez.

shalom,

Mizz

[Guest]

Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Would anyone like to explain what the bolded part of the scripture means. Too many Christians like to quote the first part of the passage, and omit the second. Although I know it is pivotal to the verse I am not sure if it is a predestination thing, or just that we work according to His purpose and thus our work provides fruit?

Well

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

There

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Is

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Matthew 16:24-25

That

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

Yes?

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:19-22

Wonderful Question

And I Suspect We Can Find The Answers Between Genesis 1:1 And Revelation 22:20