Fez Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 12, 2011 New man, "now' means exactly what it means in Greek. Take a look at the bleletter bible and read it in greek translation Now (at present) Greek word arti strongs # G737 [*]just now, this moment[*]now at this time, at this very time, this moment[/list I didn't say love wouldn't abide forever because verse 8 says it would. Of course love will abide forever. Love will be NOW and THEN because Scriptures say so. Faith and hope won't because we will be present with the Lord. No. Like I said, the things in verse 13 that abide are contrasted directly with that which will NOT abide in verse 8. We know that faith and hope will abide after that which is perfect has come, because they are grouped in verse 13 with love, which will abide for more than just now, because that's the point Paul is making in that verse: "These things will abide, whereas miracles will cease." Otherwise it is completely pointless to say, "now these three abide, faith, hope and love." Of course they abide! That's not in question! That's like saying "Faith, hope, and love exist." But Paul's point is that they will abide while other things will fail, and the things that will fail are miracles and spiritual gifts. It's talking about the Lord's coming just like the rest of the books in the bible. How can the word of God make us perfect if our interpretations are imperfect. Is it possible your religious teachings have swayed your interpretations of these scriptures or your lack of visual evidence if the gifts at work?. The rest of the books of the Bible? I don't believe 2 John says anything about the Lord's coming. I don't believe Song of Solomon says anything about the Lord's coming. I don't know why you said that... How can the word make us perfect? .... sigh. Sometimes people make me sad when they ask such questions. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." That word, complete, is the very same word in the Greek as the word in 1 Corinthians 13:10. The Bible doesn't make us flawless, it makes us complete. And not everyone's interpretation of the Bible is imperfect. We are commanded to understand what the Bible says. Ephesians 5:17 says "Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is." It is discouraging that you would think that the word of our Almighty God in heaven could not have the power to make us complete. When millions of salmon swim upstream to spawn and then die, the one swimming downstream must wonder if it's going in the wrong direction.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 12, 2011 When millions of salmon swim upstream to spawn and then die, the one swimming downstream must wonder if it's going in the wrong direction.... Well, if He wants to keep snubbing the Holy Spirit, then we can only pray the Holy Spirit get through to him about what it means to have the life of God in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewMan Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2011 Fez: Matthew 7:13-14: "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." The minority is not always wrong. Nebula: I am simply trusting that the Holy Spirit was telling the truth when He said that spiritual gifts would cease when that which is perfect has come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Nebula: I am simply trusting that the Holy Spirit was telling the truth when He said that spiritual gifts would cease when that which is perfect has come. And did the Holy Spirit say anything about "the completed word of God" or other such phrase in the passage? No - you tagged verses together having no relationship to each other to make them so. God doesn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've got a praise report. The other week some friends and I went to Hawthorn Street, a place that is in some major spiritual darkness. We went out depending on the Lords power and love to witness we started out up playing praise songs infront of a bar singing on the street. Then we walked down the strip and started praying for anyone we saw. The Lord healed a guys sholders, then a lady's neck walking down the street. Then we went into a bongshop, there were about 7 people in there and I testified what the Lord was doing and asked a young girl behind the counter if she had any back pain or anything, she said no but her knee was messed up, she had it in a brace. I had come out from behind the counter, and told the other people to watch this. I laid hands on her knee and commanded it to be healed in Jesus name, then I felt the ball of her knee shift over, and the sides of her knee click multiple times. Her knee did a rubix cube effect, then when the movement stoped, I asked her how it was and she said it was totaly better. I asked her to take the brace off, she did and started walking fine. Then I told her that Jesus healed her knee because He loves her. After that we prayed over a homeless guy who had a messed up back and the Lord healed him. Praise the Lord! He is so awesome and powerful! Just thought I'd share that for anyone on this thread that would be encouraged and keep me in prayer! The Lord has opened up some awesome doors for street ministry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 12, 2011 That's awesome - praise the Lord! How did they receive the Gospel message, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewMan Posted September 13, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2011 And did the Holy Spirit say anything about "the completed word of God" or other such phrase in the passage? No - you tagged verses together having no relationship to each other to make them so. God doesn't change. I could ask you this: Did God say "When Jesus returns" anywhere in that passage? I don't believe so. That which is perfect HAS to be something. And it HAS to relate to knowledge and prophecy in some way. But because of the passage in 1 Corinthians 13, we know that "that which is perfect" cannot be Jesus' coming, because faith, hope, and love will abide after that which is perfect has come (because spiritual gifts will fail after that which is perfect has come, whereas faith, hope, and love abide in comparison to spiritual gifts, meaning that they will abide after that which is perfect has come). So I guess my question is, if it's not the completion of the scriptures (which would explain why knowledge and prophecy in part would be done away with, since we now have the knowledge of all things that pertain to life and godliness - 2 Peter 1:3), and since we know it can't be the coming of Jesus Christ, what is "that which is perfect"? And remember, the word perfect means complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer112 Posted September 13, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've got a praise report. The other week some friends and I went to Hawthorn Street, a place that is in some major spiritual darkness. We went out depending on the Lords power and love to witness we started out up playing praise songs infront of a bar singing on the street. Then we walked down the strip and started praying for anyone we saw. The Lord healed a guys sholders, then a lady's neck walking down the street. Then we went into a bongshop, there were about 7 people in there and I testified what the Lord was doing and asked a young girl behind the counter if she had any back pain or anything, she said no but her knee was messed up, she had it in a brace. I had come out from behind the counter, and told the other people to watch this. I laid hands on her knee and commanded it to be healed in Jesus name, then I felt the ball of her knee shift over, and the sides of her knee click multiple times. Her knee did a rubix cube effect, then when the movement stoped, I asked her how it was and she said it was totaly better. I asked her to take the brace off, she did and started walking fine. Then I told her that Jesus healed her knee because He loves her. After that we prayed over a homeless guy who had a messed up back and the Lord healed him. Praise the Lord! He is so awesome and powerful! Just thought I'd share that for anyone on this thread that would be encouraged and keep me in prayer! The Lord has opened up some awesome doors for street ministry. Praise the Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 13, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,341 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,539 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 13, 2011 That's awesome - praise the Lord! How did they receive the Gospel message, though? That is the very question The Spirit put in my heart! Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 13, 2011 That which is perfect HAS to be something. And it HAS to relate to knowledge and prophecy in some way. No it doesn't. But because of the passage in 1 Corinthians 13, we know that "that which is perfect" cannot be Jesus' coming, because faith, hope, and love will abide after that which is perfect has come (because spiritual gifts will fail after that which is perfect has come, whereas faith, hope, and love abide in comparison to spiritual gifts, meaning that they will abide after that which is perfect has come). The fact that the gifts remain is it's own evidence that your interpretation is false. If you could ever spend time with Christians in places like Africa and India and Brazil, you would see these miracles. So I guess my question is, if it's not the completion of the scriptures (which would explain why knowledge and prophecy in part would be done away with, since we now have the knowledge of all things that pertain to life and godliness - 2 Peter 1:3), and since we know it can't be the coming of Jesus Christ, what is "that which is perfect"? And remember, the word perfect means complete. First I have to ask if you believe Revelation is a past or future occurrence? Because if you believe it to be future, you will have to explain how and why "the two witnesses" are prophesying and performing miracles. Second, I have to ask if you believe we are past "the last days", since the prophecy of the Spirit being poured out on all flesh, causing sons and daughters to prophecy, etc. mentions this happens in "the last days". Paul speaks of how "now" we see in a mirror dimly, but "then" we will see face to face. Compare: 1 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month ; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 There will no longer be any curse ; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And there will no longer be any night ; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever. (Rev. 22) Do you see God's face like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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