Gog/Magog is not Armageddon

[benny balerio]

We all know that the Bride is caught up to meet the Lord in the air just prior to the beginning Day of The Lord.

Ezekial 38;18-20

which matches perfectly with revelation 6;14-17, Isaiah 2;19,

Joel 2

Take notice that this Ezekial 38 battle occurs when Israel and the World believes that they are dwelling safely.

Now,..the Lord could have described the flood in detail,...BUT! He did not! Instead He chose to point out a scenerio that they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark.Just as the world was saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.(i Thessalonians 5;3)Verse 4;16-17 occurs "BEFORE" verse 5;3

Jesus is coming to take us home people,...Get Ready,..Whoo Hoo!

I am curious where you place the Day of the Lord? I am also curious why you mention that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 occurs before 5:3, other then how it appears in scripture? Let's look at the verses so we are on the same page here.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:3

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

To me, if it were listed in chronological order, verse 5:1 would start with an "And", as in a continuance, not a "But", which only places another thought to the previous verses.

Hello OneLight,

Glad you responded to my post.

You quote:

I am curious where you place the Day of the Lord? I am also curious why you mention that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 occurs before 5:3, other then how it appears in scripture?

My Reply:

First of all this is what we read in the book of Amos about the Day of the Lord:

Amos 5;18Woe to you who long

for the day of the Lord!

Why do you long for the day of the Lord?

That day will be darkness, not light.

19It will be as though a man fled from a lion

only to meet a bear,

as though he entered his house

and rested his hand on the wall

only to have a snake bite him.

20Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—

pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

We have bad enough problems with tribulations on this side of the pre-trib rapture,...but it seems that there are some christian who desire to go into Daniels 70th week so that they can be with the Lord,..that is understandable because they Love Jesus,...but he Lord says what is that Day to you?

1 thessalonians 5;1

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you.

I believe Paul is speaking to the christians in his era,.....it is not for them to know the date and times.

Post trib and pretrib are in agreement that the Rapture occurs prior to the Day of the lord,......the difference is the belief when the Day of the Lord begins.

The problem with harmonizing a post trib view is that they claim the Day of the Lord only begins in revelation 16.

But the truth is that Gods wrath begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20 and continues throughout the whole of Daniels 70th week.

1 thessalonians 1;10

10and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

There are some post tribs who claim that revelation 16 occurs after the Great Tribulation,...but revelation 16 has it that the armies are making preparations to fight at Armageddon.

The Day of the Lord and Gods Wrath are one and the same.

Ezekiel 38 occurrs slightly prior to the beginning of Daniels 70th week.And since it is that Ezekiel 38; 11 through 15 is what activates the Day of the Lord, and that this prophecy can only be placed prior to Daniels 70th week,..then the rapture must occur prior to Daniels 70th week among a multitude of other reasons.

[OneLight]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

[benny balerio]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

It's been a long time since someone has claimed that the Dasy of the Lord was one day long or basicly 24 hours long.

But this is easily refuted.

Daniel 11;36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

In Rev. 15:1, the “bowl judgments” are “the seven last plagues”, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The “seven last plagues” must happen after the other plagues.

The Wrath of God is complete in the Bowl Judgements.

revelation 6;17 is not a description of anticipation.....that would go against scripture.....it is that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers,...and the Bride will not be hiding from the Lord.16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 6:16–17 is a summary statement of all the previous seal judgments.

Revelation 6:15–17 is an overall report of the human response to God’s judgment as administered through all six seal judgments.The controlling verb in verse 17, “is come” (êlthen), “is aorist indicative, referring to a previous arrival of the wrath, not something that is about to take place”

Matthew 24;39 occurs after the Great Tribulation and revelation 6;17 occurs at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 cannot be scripturally placed at Armageddon for a multitude of scriptural reasons, at the end of Daniels 70th week,....for that matter,..Ezekiel 38 cannot scripturally be placed inside of Daniels 70th week,..therefore, The wrath of God begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20

You my friend are right inside the general time era of when the pre-trib rapture will occur.That general time era is between now, and sometimes shortly after the coming Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 war that todat is currently brewing in the middle east.

[OneLight]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

It's been a long time since someone has claimed that the Dasy of the Lord was one day long or basicly 24 hours long.

But this is easily refuted.

Daniel 11;36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

In Rev. 15:1, the “bowl judgments” are “the seven last plagues”, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The “seven last plagues” must happen after the other plagues.

The Wrath of God is complete in the Bowl Judgements.

revelation 6;17 is not a description of anticipation.....that would go against scripture.....it is that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers,...and the Bride will not be hiding from the Lord.16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 6:16–17 is a summary statement of all the previous seal judgments.

Revelation 6:15–17 is an overall report of the human response to God’s judgment as administered through all six seal judgments.The controlling verb in verse 17, “is come” (êlthen), “is aorist indicative, referring to a previous arrival of the wrath, not something that is about to take place”

Matthew 24;39 occurs after the Great Tribulation and revelation 6;17 occurs at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 cannot be scripturally placed at Armageddon for a multitude of scriptural reasons, at the end of Daniels 70th week,....for that matter,..Ezekiel 38 cannot scripturally be placed inside of Daniels 70th week,..therefore, The wrath of God begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20

You my friend are right inside the general time era of when the pre-trib rapture will occur.That general time era is between now, and sometimes shortly after the coming Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 war that todat is currently brewing in the middle east.

You haven't refuted anything here.

1. Scripture says the "day" of the Lord, not "days" of the Lord, meaning one day, which is the Day He comes back to earth.
   
2. I never mentioned anything different about the seals, trumpets or bowl, except their arrive over a period of time, not in one day, so I don't know where yo are going with this one.
   
3. The great day of His wrath is not the Lords day. The two are not the same.
   
4. Matthew 24:36-44 only describes the fact that nobody knows, not even those who are saved. It is not a timeline for the seals to begin.
   
5. Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16 when the "sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
   
6. Gog/Magog is found in Revelation 20:7-10, after the 1000 year reign.

You are correct though, Armageddon is not the Gog/Magog war. They are two different events. Armageddon before Christ returns and Gog/Magog after His 1000 year reign. I would recheck your timetable.

[benny balerio]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

It's been a long time since someone has claimed that the Dasy of the Lord was one day long or basicly 24 hours long.

But this is easily refuted.

Daniel 11;36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

In Rev. 15:1, the “bowl judgments” are “the seven last plagues”, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The “seven last plagues” must happen after the other plagues.

The Wrath of God is complete in the Bowl Judgements.

revelation 6;17 is not a description of anticipation.....that would go against scripture.....it is that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers,...and the Bride will not be hiding from the Lord.16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 6:16–17 is a summary statement of all the previous seal judgments.

Revelation 6:15–17 is an overall report of the human response to God’s judgment as administered through all six seal judgments.The controlling verb in verse 17, “is come” (êlthen), “is aorist indicative, referring to a previous arrival of the wrath, not something that is about to take place”

Matthew 24;39 occurs after the Great Tribulation and revelation 6;17 occurs at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 cannot be scripturally placed at Armageddon for a multitude of scriptural reasons, at the end of Daniels 70th week,....for that matter,..Ezekiel 38 cannot scripturally be placed inside of Daniels 70th week,..therefore, The wrath of God begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20

You my friend are right inside the general time era of when the pre-trib rapture will occur.That general time era is between now, and sometimes shortly after the coming Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 war that todat is currently brewing in the middle east.

You haven't refuted anything here.

1. Scripture says the "day" of the Lord, not "days" of the Lord, meaning one day, which is the Day He comes back to earth.
   
2. I never mentioned anything different about the seals, trumpets or bowl, except their arrive over a period of time, not in one day, so I don't know where yo are going with this one.
   
3. The great day of His wrath is not the Lords day. The two are not the same.
   
4. Matthew 24:36-44 only describes the fact that nobody knows, not even those who are saved. It is not a timeline for the seals to begin.
   
5. Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16 when the "sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
   
6. Gog/Magog is found in Revelation 20:7-10, after the 1000 year reign.

You are correct though, Armageddon is not the Gog/Magog war. They are two different events. Armageddon before Christ returns and Gog/Magog after His 1000 year reign. I would recheck your timetable.

You Quote:

5.Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16

My Reply:

I'm not clear on your interpretation here,..are you saying that Armageddon is fought by the Lord within revelation 16,...or are you saying that the war of Armageddon which is fought by the Lord is not view as the wrath of God?

My second question is,....if you view the Day of the Lord as His second physical return,...in which you believe a rapture would occur on that Day?If a post trib raptured occurred that day,..would not the believer long for that Day?

Then why would the Lord say to your view that,.......18Woe to you who long

for the day of the Lord!

Why do you long for the day of the Lord?

That day will be darkness, not light.

19It will be as though a man fled from a lion

only to meet a bear,

as though he entered his house

and rested his hand on the wall

only to have a snake bite him.

20Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—

pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

[OneLight]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

It's been a long time since someone has claimed that the Dasy of the Lord was one day long or basicly 24 hours long.

But this is easily refuted.

Daniel 11;36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

In Rev. 15:1, the “bowl judgments” are “the seven last plagues”, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The “seven last plagues” must happen after the other plagues.

The Wrath of God is complete in the Bowl Judgements.

revelation 6;17 is not a description of anticipation.....that would go against scripture.....it is that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers,...and the Bride will not be hiding from the Lord.16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 6:16–17 is a summary statement of all the previous seal judgments.

Revelation 6:15–17 is an overall report of the human response to God’s judgment as administered through all six seal judgments.The controlling verb in verse 17, “is come” (êlthen), “is aorist indicative, referring to a previous arrival of the wrath, not something that is about to take place”

Matthew 24;39 occurs after the Great Tribulation and revelation 6;17 occurs at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 cannot be scripturally placed at Armageddon for a multitude of scriptural reasons, at the end of Daniels 70th week,....for that matter,..Ezekiel 38 cannot scripturally be placed inside of Daniels 70th week,..therefore, The wrath of God begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20

You my friend are right inside the general time era of when the pre-trib rapture will occur.That general time era is between now, and sometimes shortly after the coming Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 war that todat is currently brewing in the middle east.

You haven't refuted anything here.

1. Scripture says the "day" of the Lord, not "days" of the Lord, meaning one day, which is the Day He comes back to earth.
   
2. I never mentioned anything different about the seals, trumpets or bowl, except their arrive over a period of time, not in one day, so I don't know where yo are going with this one.
   
3. The great day of His wrath is not the Lords day. The two are not the same.
   
4. Matthew 24:36-44 only describes the fact that nobody knows, not even those who are saved. It is not a timeline for the seals to begin.
   
5. Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16 when the "sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
   
6. Gog/Magog is found in Revelation 20:7-10, after the 1000 year reign.

You are correct though, Armageddon is not the Gog/Magog war. They are two different events. Armageddon before Christ returns and Gog/Magog after His 1000 year reign. I would recheck your timetable.

You Quote:

5.Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16

My Reply:

I'm not clear on your interpretation here,..are you saying that Armageddon is fought by the Lord within revelation 16,...or are you saying that the war of Armageddon which is fought by the Lord is not view as the wrath of God?

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My second question is,....if you view the Day of the Lord as His second physical return,...in which you believe a rapture would occur on that Day?If a post trib raptured occurred that day,..would not the believer long for that Day?

Then why would the Lord say to your view that,.......18Woe to you who long

for the day of the Lord!

Why do you long for the day of the Lord?

That day will be darkness, not light.

19It will be as though a man fled from a lion

only to meet a bear,

as though he entered his house

and rested his hand on the wall

only to have a snake bite him.

20Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—

pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

Yes, the tribulation will be great to those who are not His, but as He brought the Hebrews out of Egypt, Noah through the flood, Lot out of Sodom, so will He bring us through the tribulation. His wrath is not for his children, but the children of disobedience.

[benny balerio]

How does 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 back each other up in your line of thinking? Gods wrath is given to us in 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, expanding over a period of time.. The day of the Lord is one day.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

2 Peter 3:10-13

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Have you ever read this piece? The Day of the Lord

It's been a long time since someone has claimed that the Dasy of the Lord was one day long or basicly 24 hours long.

But this is easily refuted.

Daniel 11;36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

In Rev. 15:1, the “bowl judgments” are “the seven last plagues”, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The “seven last plagues” must happen after the other plagues.

The Wrath of God is complete in the Bowl Judgements.

revelation 6;17 is not a description of anticipation.....that would go against scripture.....it is that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers,...and the Bride will not be hiding from the Lord.16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 6:16–17 is a summary statement of all the previous seal judgments.

Revelation 6:15–17 is an overall report of the human response to God’s judgment as administered through all six seal judgments.The controlling verb in verse 17, “is come” (êlthen), “is aorist indicative, referring to a previous arrival of the wrath, not something that is about to take place”

Matthew 24;39 occurs after the Great Tribulation and revelation 6;17 occurs at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 cannot be scripturally placed at Armageddon for a multitude of scriptural reasons, at the end of Daniels 70th week,....for that matter,..Ezekiel 38 cannot scripturally be placed inside of Daniels 70th week,..therefore, The wrath of God begins with Ezekiel 38;18-20

You my friend are right inside the general time era of when the pre-trib rapture will occur.That general time era is between now, and sometimes shortly after the coming Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 war that todat is currently brewing in the middle east.

You haven't refuted anything here.

1. Scripture says the "day" of the Lord, not "days" of the Lord, meaning one day, which is the Day He comes back to earth.
   
2. I never mentioned anything different about the seals, trumpets or bowl, except their arrive over a period of time, not in one day, so I don't know where yo are going with this one.
   
3. The great day of His wrath is not the Lords day. The two are not the same.
   
4. Matthew 24:36-44 only describes the fact that nobody knows, not even those who are saved. It is not a timeline for the seals to begin.
   
5. Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16 when the "sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
   
6. Gog/Magog is found in Revelation 20:7-10, after the 1000 year reign.

You are correct though, Armageddon is not the Gog/Magog war. They are two different events. Armageddon before Christ returns and Gog/Magog after His 1000 year reign. I would recheck your timetable.

You Quote:

5.Armageddon is placed within the wrath of God, as seen in Revelation 16

My Reply:

I'm not clear on your interpretation here,..are you saying that Armageddon is fought by the Lord within revelation 16,...or are you saying that the war of Armageddon which is fought by the Lord is not view as the wrath of God?

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My second question is,....if you view the Day of the Lord as His second physical return,...in which you believe a rapture would occur on that Day?If a post trib raptured occurred that day,..would not the believer long for that Day?

Then why would the Lord say to your view that,.......18Woe to you who long

for the day of the Lord!

Why do you long for the day of the Lord?

That day will be darkness, not light.

19It will be as though a man fled from a lion

only to meet a bear,

as though he entered his house

and rested his hand on the wall

only to have a snake bite him.

20Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—

pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

Yes, the tribulation will be great to those who are not His, but as He brought the Hebrews out of Egypt, Noah through the flood, Lot out of Sodom, so will He bring us through the tribulation. His wrath is not for his children, but the children of disobedience.

You Quote:

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My Reply:

Oh! I agree that Armageddon and Ezekiel 38 are not one and the same.

But tell me,..when do you believe Ezekiel 38 will transpire?

It is not the same event as the Gog battle at the end of the millennium,..there are many differences.

But Armageddon is a battle between the Lord and all the armies of the world.

revelation 19;19-21

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

You Quote:

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

My Reply:

You really not answering the question it seems to me,......Correct me if I am wrong,....In your view,..you are saying,..

If you are a christian during Daniels 70th week, then Amos 5;18-20 does not apply.

But if a jew is unsaved at the return of the lord Jesus,..then amos 5;18-20 would apply.

Maybe I am not understanding what you quoted here,..could you expand your explanation so that I could get a clearer understanding what you are saying here,..I do not want to assume anything if I can avoid doing so..Thanks.

Oops! I didn't see the following quote.

You Quote:

Yes, the tribulation will be great to those who are not His, but as He brought the Hebrews out of Egypt, Noah through the flood, Lot out of Sodom, so will He bring us through the tribulation. His wrath is not for his children, but the children of disobedience.

My Reply:

A multitude that no man could number will die for their faith,..I would hardly call that being protected from his wrath.Revelation 13;7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

These scriptures reveal that your statement here is incorrect.

Actually the Lord says that man will be as scarce as the Gold of Ophir when He returns.

Isaiah 13;12-13

I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir

Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 13 points out two things that refute your claim that the Day of the Lord and Gods Wrath are not the same.

Isaiah 13 does definately reveal that the Day of the Lord and Gods Wrath are one and the same as in Judgement on the world,...not only does it state this but it also reveals that Armageddon consists of Gods Wrath.

Edited July 6, 2011 by benny balerio

[OneLight]

.

You Quote:

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My Reply:

Oh! I agree that Armageddon and Ezekiel 38 are not one and the same.

But tell me,..when do you believe Ezekiel 38 will transpire?

It is not the same event as the Gog battle at the end of the millennium,..there are many differences.

But Armageddon is a battle between the Lord and all the armies of the world.

revelation 19;19-21

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Yes, the battle of Gog/Magog will happen after the 1000 year reign. When the 1000 years are up, Satan is releases for "a little while" to gather another army from the four corners of the world. Both battles against the Lord concerns all nations.

Revelation 19:19 "And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." and Revelation 20:7-8 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."

By the sounds of it, the latter battle is greater then the former.

You Quote:

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

My Reply:

You really not answering the question it seems to me,......Correct me if I am wrong,....In your view,..you are saying,..

If you are a christian during Daniels 70th week, then Amos 5;18-20 does not apply.

But if a jew is unsaved at the return of the lord Jesus,..then amos 5;18-20 would apply.

Maybe I am not understanding what you quoted here,..could you expand your explanation so that I could get a clearer understanding what you are saying here,..I do not want to assume anything if I can avoid doing so..Thanks.

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

I ask you this. Who were the Jewish people looking for in the Messiah? Was He to be a sacrifice or a King that ruled the world? Those who rejected Jesus believed that the Messiah will come as King of Kings, as He will in His next coming. Because of this, they rejected Christ and His salvation, so yes, when He does return, it will not bode well for those who reject Christ. Does this clear it up?

[benny balerio]

.

You Quote:

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My Reply:

Oh! I agree that Armageddon and Ezekiel 38 are not one and the same.

But tell me,..when do you believe Ezekiel 38 will transpire?

It is not the same event as the Gog battle at the end of the millennium,..there are many differences.

But Armageddon is a battle between the Lord and all the armies of the world.

revelation 19;19-21

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Yes, the battle of Gog/Magog will happen after the 1000 year reign. When the 1000 years are up, Satan is releases for "a little while" to gather another army from the four corners of the world. Both battles against the Lord concerns all nations.

Revelation 19:19 "And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." and Revelation 20:7-8 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."

By the sounds of it, the latter battle is greater then the former.

You Quote:

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

My Reply:

You really not answering the question it seems to me,......Correct me if I am wrong,....In your view,..you are saying,..

If you are a christian during Daniels 70th week, then Amos 5;18-20 does not apply.

But if a jew is unsaved at the return of the lord Jesus,..then amos 5;18-20 would apply.

Maybe I am not understanding what you quoted here,..could you expand your explanation so that I could get a clearer understanding what you are saying here,..I do not want to assume anything if I can avoid doing so..Thanks.

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

I ask you this. Who were the Jewish people looking for in the Messiah? Was He to be a sacrifice or a King that ruled the world? Those who rejected Jesus believed that the Messiah will come as King of Kings, as He will in His next coming. Because of this, they rejected Christ and His salvation, so yes, when He does return, it will not bode well for those who reject Christ. Does this clear it up?

You Quote:

Yes, the battle of Gog/Magog will happen after the 1000 year reign. When the 1000 years are up, Satan is releases for "a little while" to gather another army from the four corners of the world. Both battles against the Lord concerns all nations.

Revelation 19:19 "And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." and Revelation 20:7-8 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."

My Reply:

First of all Although Gog and Magog are both mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and 39, this rebellion is not the same event, as a comparison of several factors reveals:

This prophecy of Ezekiel concerning Gog and Magog cannot be identified with the prophecy in Rev. 20:7-10+ for three reasons. The former takes place before the Kingdom is established on earth; the latter after this Kingdom. Also, in Ezekiel the invasion comes only from the north, but in Revelation it comes from the ‘four quarters of the earth.’ Furthermore, the rebellion of Gog and Magog and their destruction in Rev. 20:7-10+ marks the ushering in of the eternal state (Rev. 20:11-15+); but in Ezekiel it is preliminary to the Millennial Kingdom on earth.4

First, the Ezekiel invasion comes from the north; the Revelation invasion comes from all over the world; Second, this view also fails to answer the problem of the seven months and seven years. This earth is done away with soon after the invasion mentioned in Revelation, not allowing any time (or place!) for seven months of burial or seven years of burning.

Gog is prophecied to be buried in the Ezekiel 38 battle, including his army.

But in the Gog battle at the end of tne millennium,... fire came down from heaven and devoured them, no buriel.

Ezekiel 38:

11“‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east towardb the Sea.c It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog.

You Quote:

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

I ask you this. Who were the Jewish people looking for in the Messiah? Was He to be a sacrifice or a King that ruled the world? Those who rejected Jesus believed that the Messiah will come as King of Kings, as He will in His next coming. Because of this, they rejected Christ and His salvation, so yes, when He does return, it will not bode well for those who reject Christ. Does this clear it up?

My Reply:

Not quite,....Are you saying that there will be unbelieving Jews at the Sheep and Goat Judgement? a yes or no will do.

You Quote:

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

My Reply:

So how do you explain revelation 13;7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

Do you think that these were protected?

I would say that with a multitude that no man could number as dieing for their faith was not what I would call being physicly protected,..especially since the Lord granted the beast authority to kill them.

[OneLight]

.

You Quote:

I am saying that "the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared." Nothing more, nothing less. Armageddon is the battle with the Kings of the East, where Gog/Magog is a battle with the Kings of the North. They are not the same battle. Compare the scriptures I gave you.

My Reply:

Oh! I agree that Armageddon and Ezekiel 38 are not one and the same.

But tell me,..when do you believe Ezekiel 38 will transpire?

It is not the same event as the Gog battle at the end of the millennium,..there are many differences.

But Armageddon is a battle between the Lord and all the armies of the world.

revelation 19;19-21

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Yes, the battle of Gog/Magog will happen after the 1000 year reign. When the 1000 years are up, Satan is releases for "a little while" to gather another army from the four corners of the world. Both battles against the Lord concerns all nations.

Revelation 19:19 "And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." and Revelation 20:7-8 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."

By the sounds of it, the latter battle is greater then the former.

You Quote:

I am sure those of Israel who are not saved, and look forward to the Day of the Lord from their understanding, as this is written to, will remember the words of Amos 5, but to us who are His, we all desire to be with Him, be it at anytime.

My Reply:

You really not answering the question it seems to me,......Correct me if I am wrong,....In your view,..you are saying,..

If you are a christian during Daniels 70th week, then Amos 5;18-20 does not apply.

But if a jew is unsaved at the return of the lord Jesus,..then amos 5;18-20 would apply.

Maybe I am not understanding what you quoted here,..could you expand your explanation so that I could get a clearer understanding what you are saying here,..I do not want to assume anything if I can avoid doing so..Thanks.

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

I ask you this. Who were the Jewish people looking for in the Messiah? Was He to be a sacrifice or a King that ruled the world? Those who rejected Jesus believed that the Messiah will come as King of Kings, as He will in His next coming. Because of this, they rejected Christ and His salvation, so yes, when He does return, it will not bode well for those who reject Christ. Does this clear it up?

You Quote:

Yes, the battle of Gog/Magog will happen after the 1000 year reign. When the 1000 years are up, Satan is releases for "a little while" to gather another army from the four corners of the world. Both battles against the Lord concerns all nations.

Revelation 19:19 "And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." and Revelation 20:7-8 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."

My Reply:

First of all Although Gog and Magog are both mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and 39, this rebellion is not the same event, as a comparison of several factors reveals:

This prophecy of Ezekiel concerning Gog and Magog cannot be identified with the prophecy in Rev. 20:7-10+ for three reasons. The former takes place before the Kingdom is established on earth; the latter after this Kingdom. Also, in Ezekiel the invasion comes only from the north, but in Revelation it comes from the ‘four quarters of the earth.’ Furthermore, the rebellion of Gog and Magog and their destruction in Rev. 20:7-10+ marks the ushering in of the eternal state (Rev. 20:11-15+); but in Ezekiel it is preliminary to the Millennial Kingdom on earth.4

First, the Ezekiel invasion comes from the north; the Revelation invasion comes from all over the world; Second, this view also fails to answer the problem of the seven months and seven years. This earth is done away with soon after the invasion mentioned in Revelation, not allowing any time (or place!) for seven months of burial or seven years of burning.

Gog is prophecied to be buried in the Ezekiel 38 battle, including his army.

But in the Gog battle at the end of tne millennium,... fire came down from heaven and devoured them, no buriel.

Ezekiel 38:

11“‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east towardb the Sea.c It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog.

The armies are gathered from the four corners of the earth, but that does not change where Gog/Magog are. If, as you claim, Gog is buried, how can it be in Revelation for the final battle?

Your reference is as faulty as your understanding.

Ezekiel 38:11

You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’—

You meant Ezekiel 39:11 which tells us they will cease to exist. The word you use as buried is entomb, which means to cease to exist, their place of death. If they are buried, as you claim, how can the birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field devour them? I suppose they will also attack with bow and arrow?

You Quote:

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

I ask you this. Who were the Jewish people looking for in the Messiah? Was He to be a sacrifice or a King that ruled the world? Those who rejected Jesus believed that the Messiah will come as King of Kings, as He will in His next coming. Because of this, they rejected Christ and His salvation, so yes, when He does return, it will not bode well for those who reject Christ. Does this clear it up?

My Reply:

Not quite,....Are you saying that there will be unbelieving Jews at the Sheep and Goat Judgement? a yes or no will do.

A very long time ago, I learned that you cannot make doctrine from parables, though they have truth, they are not doctrinal. It appears that you have not learned this lesson yet. But to go with what is true in this parable, the word nations, "ethnos", is actually "ethne", which is plurall, meaning all political nation not Jewish. Ethne means Gentiles or the non-Jewish people", which has sank down to mean heathens today.

You Quote:

What I am saying is that Christ protects His children through all that has ever happened to His people, using the plagues of Egypt, the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

My Reply:

So how do you explain revelation 13;7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

Do you think that these were protected?

If you actually studied scripture as you try to portray, you would realize that the saints spoken of were temporarily overcome, not permanently. Are you saying that God looses to Satan, that His Holy Spirit cannot protect His own?

I would say that with a multitude that no man could number as dieing for their faith was not what I would call being physicly protected,..especially since the Lord granted the beast authority to kill them.

Out of all that will happen to this world, you try to say that those who died for Christ proves that He does not protect? Your understanding of His will is skin deep, no meat. What do you think Christ meant when He said "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength."? Do you believe this is only true when the ending does not mean death?