Guest shiloh357 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Calvinists error to think that sovereignty must be exhaustive, meticulous, micromanaging instead of responsive, providential, and within the context of God-given creaturely freedom. God is still sovereign, but not in the Calvinistic sense, if He lets us name the animals (Adam). Sovereign does not mean all-controlling, but in control despite significant others having a say so, even contrary to God at times (what kind of parent would control a kid like a car or pet?). Does it ever occur to you that many of us who disagree with you are not Calvinists??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted August 7, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Calvinists error to think that sovereignty must be exhaustive, meticulous, micromanaging instead of responsive, providential, and within the context of God-given creaturely freedom. God is still sovereign, but not in the Calvinistic sense, if He lets us name the animals (Adam). Sovereign does not mean all-controlling, but in control despite significant others having a say so, even contrary to God at times (what kind of parent would control a kid like a car or pet?). Does it ever occur to you that many of us who disagree with you are not Calvinists??? One can have CalvinisTIC views without being Calvinists. So, are you Arminian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Tell me this... The omniscience of God. Do you think it means that God has all possible knowledge (which would include all propositional and all experiential knowledge)? Or would it include only propositional knowledge? God created everything, including "experience." You can't create what you don't know perfectly and completely. The Supreme Spirit created matter, which He is not. God doesn't have to "be" it to know it, and to know it more thoroughly, truly and completely that those who "are" it. Experience is not created. Experience is experienced. This is not about what God is or isn't. The question I asked pertains to the extent of omnscience, not whether or not God is omniscient. God's knowledge depends on nothing outside Himself. Experience is based in physiology. God created physiology. The outcome of His creation is not accidental nor incidental to Him, it is determined by Him. Experience is not necessarily "based" on physiology. For exampe: Has God ever experienced personal sinfulness? Has He ever experienced comitting a sin? Has God ever personally known through experience whaat it is like to not be God? Has God ever experienced a need that He needed someone higher than Him to meet? God is immutable. Your questions assume his mutability and are, therefore, absurd. . .which is what happens when one goes outside Scripture and trafficks in human speculation regarding God. No my questions do not assume mutability. The questions were rhetorical. The obvious answer to each is no. The point I was making was precisely that God is immutable and therefore had never experienced anything that would affect a change in his nature or essence as God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 7, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,422 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,578 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I have always found these verses in worship and seeking Him a delight Job 9:10-12 10 He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number. 11 If He goes by me, I do not see Him; If He moves past, I do not perceive Him; 12 If He takes away, who can hinder Him? Who can say to Him, 'What are You doing?' NKJV If I am to know He must reveal it to me.... yet Ps 37:4 4 Delight yourself also in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. NKJV I think we all agree the intimate personal knowledge of Him to share with others a desire He will fulfill but only in our broken and contriteness of worthied smallness does He grant along with humilities accompaniment so we are not destroyed with puffed flesh explosions of twisted words and incorrect understandings.... Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Calvinists error to think that sovereignty must be exhaustive, meticulous, micromanaging instead of responsive, providential, and within the context of God-given creaturely freedom. God is still sovereign, but not in the Calvinistic sense, if He lets us name the animals (Adam). Sovereign does not mean all-controlling, but in control despite significant others having a say so, even contrary to God at times (what kind of parent would control a kid like a car or pet?). Does it ever occur to you that many of us who disagree with you are not Calvinists??? Whosoever For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Whosoever Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20 Whosoever And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32 Whosoever And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21 Seeks But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 Amen~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 One can have CalvinisTIC views without being Calvinists. So, are you Arminian? Jesus Saves For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2 Men Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8 Don't Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6 See? But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Does Scripture, or anyone, say that he has experienced anything that would affect a change in his nature or essence as God? No the Scriptures do not say that he has experienced that. That is what I am trying to say. I am saying that God has always been sinless, always been divine and has never been need. He has never experienced any of those things. Had God experienced one of those things, it would have changed His nature. My point is that God has always remaned the same, as He is. The point I have been endeavoring to make is that God is omniscient even if He has not every possible experiece there is to have. He has propositional knowledge of all that is and all that will be and He has propositional knowledge of all that can be or can be done (experienced) but God has not expericed everything that can be experienced and does not need to in order to be omniscient. Oh and for future reference, Eleanor, you do not need to put YOUR response to my words in "quote" tags. You only need to put "quote" tags around the portion of my responses you are quoating. When you put "quote" tags around your words, it gets confusing. Notice that I did not put my words in "quote" tags. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 8, 2011 "God is light" - what does that tell us? From an explanation in For a photon, whose speed is always c, by definition, we always have s = ct, and therefore, for a photon, all the events it "experiences" have a distance = 0, which corresponds to experiencing all events at the same time and in the same place. If you were a photon all events you experience in your life will happen in your present and at your location. s = space t = time We believe God is everywhere at the same time. What if He is also everytime at the same place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted August 9, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Time is more fundamental than space and should not be confused with it. God fills the universe and is aware of everything at a particular time. It does not mean He actually exists in the past and future since this would also mean we must be there in reality (creation would be co-eternal with God and Jesus would still be on the cross, etc.). The Bible clearly portrays God as experiencing sequence, succession, duration, parallel to our history. He hears the agent pray in real time. He cannot hear us pray in the future if we do not even exist. Eternal now should never have become a viable view in church history since it is unbiblical and illogical. Instead of speculating without proof, why not adopt a more coherent, common sense view that does not contradict Scripture nor does it limit God, properly understood. Tradition is not always truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneaccords Posted August 9, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 366 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Tell me this... The omniscience of God. Do you think it means that God has all possible knowledge (which would include all propositional and all experiential knowledge)? Or would it include only propositional knowledge? God knows all things. Psalm 139: 1 O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. 3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Jeremiah 17: 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Acts 1: 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, Hebrews 4: 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Remember too that the Lord Jesus asked questions to people when He already knew the answers. He was just asking them to test them, to see what they would say. Edited August 9, 2011 by Oneaccords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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