wordsower Posted April 9, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Shilou, For 14 pages I have been trying to show with scripture that the Sabbath of the New Covenant is Jesus. That the Sabbath of the OT was temorary, fading away, a shadow of what was coming. Please review the thread. Sunday is not the Sabbath. Your friend should be in church to strengthen her walk with God, not because of a legalistic rule. My advice to her would be to first, find another church that doesn't judge people but helps them, and then to pray about what God wants her to do concerning her work situation. The Word tells us that the righteous are not forsaken or their decendants begging bread. The Lord will provide for her if she is His. There are churches that meet on Saturday night, and other days and nights of the week, maybe she could get involved in something like that until her situation improves. I don't know what kind of waitress she is but Iknow before I was saved I worked as a waitress and had to sell beer and liquor, as a child of God I would not be doing that now. In my own life, they more I give to the kingdom, the more God blesses me and the more I follow Him the more He leads me to what He wants for my life. Tithing is not a legalistic rule and God is not an accountant but we are told to give and provide for the poor, and that goes for the poor too, God tells us this so that He can bless us and so that we further the kingdom. I don't know if that helps at all, I don't know your friend's situation enough to say much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shilou Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Hi wordsower actually I wasn't asking you. I understand as you may remember what you are saying completely. I wanted to know how those making this an absolute would handle this. When Jesus pointed out the calf in the well he knew there were real life situations that would not fit in with an absolute in this area. If the barn was on fire would someone say well I can't put it out today it's the Sabbath. A snow storm hits and the only way you can get out to go to church is by shoveling, what do you do? I told the mom to go as the Spirit leads her and not to get too excited about what others were saying. She also attends a Bible study during the week on a night off. How about another commandment. Thou shalt not kill. Now doesn't anyone find it strange that even after given this commandment the Israelites were then told to kill? And what of the war in Iraq, is all the young christians and the ones being babtized there doomed? What about David he was a warrior. If we put the Sabbath as an absolute then wouldn't this be one too? You see now we have a problem if we want to get into absolutes, because these people absolutely are not following this commandment. As with the war in Iraq I see it differently like the commandment of love thy neighbor sometimes means that a war will have to take place in order to show love. Take the civil war for example, did all those men who died and killed to free a race from the bonds of slavery do so in vain, or did God read their hearts and know they were doing it out of love for their fellow man? The scriptures are there as God's word to us to guide us, but we also have to understand that the Spirit is in each of us and sometimes directs us in what seems to be opposite directions. Just because my life might be perfectly lined up so I just can easily do what the commandments require does not mean God has everyones lined up so conviently. I'm here in America so I am not required to kill anyone, I have Sundays off so I can go to church. But does any of this mean I get to be puffed up with rigeousness because my lifestyle and job makes this easy. And if I'm puffed up with pride over all this then wouldn't I be breaking the commandment of not taking the Lords name in vain. You see this all becomes very difficult when we start to try to only apply discerning the scriptures to it. But when we follow the Spirit it is simple, we just have to do the next right thing He tells us to and rest in the fact that we belong, bought by the blood to Christ. What Christ really wants us to do is connect our hearts and minds and not get overly dependent on either, and when we are connected in heart and mind He can give us clear, simple direction so that we don't fall into judging others. One hundred days of Sabbaths could not give me the peace and rest I feel after spending time with Christ. He is my Sabbath rest. In Yeshua's love Shilou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Waldans Mountain Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Hi Hebrews 3 seems to be brought up quite a bit. What are verses 15-19 trying to tell us. HEBREWS 3 [15] While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.[16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell inthe wilderness?[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?[19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Why did those carcases fall in the wilderness? What rest will these people not enter into because of unbelief? EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.[11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. In both above scriptures Out of Egypt and into the wilderness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted April 10, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted April 10, 2003 They believed in the Sabbath Waldens, they saw the command on the stones written by God's hand when Moses brought it down and showed them. Ez. says they polluted it, they were not very obedient people, they were grumblers and complainers and one of them gathered sticks on the Sabbath and God struck him dead, so yes, they definately believed in it, they didn't even get Manna on that day. Not obeying and not believing are not the same thing. They did not and do not believe that Jesus came and died for them and because of their unbelief they get suicide bombers almost daily, they got the holacaust, they got scattered around the earth for the past 2000 years until 1948, they have not been resting, can you tell? (But they STILL believe in and keep the Sabbath) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted April 10, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2003 I have a question. This is a real situation that was brought to my attention. A young single mother. She works Saturday and Sundays waitressing because on those days she can leave her children with her parents and only has to pay for three days of daycare, and even this she can bearly afford. She is a babtized christian. Members of her church are using the law to scold her for not keeping the Sabbath. Actually I have a couple of questions. First who will God look more favorably upon the single mom struggling to support her children, or the church goers who are adding to her plight? Greetings Shilou, I trust you are well and enriched by God's mercies and graces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted April 10, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2003 Greetings Dear WordSower, I do mean to respond to your post and specifically 2Co 3:3, but time evades me now. I regret the delay. Peace, William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shilou Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Blind I'm not really sure what you are asking, the truth is brought through a combination of scripture and Spirit. Without the Spirit people can really get out there when discerning scripture (KKK, Hitler etc.) You say the scriptures must be followed line upon line. So my question is explain why we have the commandment of thou shalt not kill and then as in Jerico the Israelites were commanded to not only kill but slaughter right down to the children, every living thing. God actually led them against His own commandment here wouldn't you say. David went against this commandment and the one of Adultery, he paid consequeces but was also greatly blessed. So let's go there because we are not agreeing on the Sabbath so why keep beating it up. Maybe we can find the answers to all of it if we look at all the commandments and how they were kept or not kept throughout scripture. In Yeshua's love Shilou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted April 11, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Shilou, This is just another example of why we must have an understanding of the Spirit of the law and not just the letter. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall his blood be shed . . ." (Genesis 9:6). "And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;. . . And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations." (Genesis 9:8,9,12). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted April 11, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2003 Blind I'm not really sure what you are asking, the truth is brought through a combination of scripture and Spirit. Without the Spirit people can really get out there when discerning scripture (KKK, Hitler etc.) . . . . Greetings Shilou, I actually presented a few questions which I hoped you would acknowledge.1.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted April 11, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2003 ..... Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for MURDERERS of fathers and MURDERERS of mothers, for MANSLAYERS." (I Timothy 1:8,9). Gen 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: 3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.Abraham, the father of faith, who was declared righteous by God, not because of the workings of the ceremonial parts of the law, i.e., circumcision, but because he believed and obeyed, did not need the written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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