The Scientific Miracles

[ayin jade]

Answering islam is a good link Shadow.

Instead of discussing a false religion that leads to death, lets look at how Jesus saves.

He is fully God, fully man, and He came to earth to pay the penalty for our sins. Every sin you an I commit, He has paid for. All you need to escape the death penalty for your sins, is to accept Jesus. Quite simple. Please ask questions. We would love to answer them. We would love to help you make the most important decision of your life.

[Guest salem]

Going back to the subject, From what I've heard from different friends of mine who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions.

1. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious.

2. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes. Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearance. You buy a five-dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set.

3. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards.

That's what I got from the new Muslimah's group at Yahoo, Islamway women's board and a few other friends of mine. Stats taken by many college groups say that women convert 4 times more often then men.

[Khristeeanos]

We can't judge Christianity by those who claim to be followers of Christ.

We should judge Christianity by one thing, The Bible.

Here are a few quotes from the Qu'ran:

Sura 5:50something to 50something

Oh Believers! take not the Jews or Christians as friends.  They are but one another's friends.  If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he surely is one of them!  God will not guide the evil doers.

Interesting, a Muslim is forbidden by the Quran to take a Jew or Christian as a friend.

How about this quote:

Sura 5:70something to 70something

Infidels now are they who say, 'God is the Messiah, Son of Mary;' for the Messiah said, "O children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.'  Whoever shall join other gods with God, God shall forbid him the Garden, and his abode shall be the Fire; and the wicked will have no helpers.

They surely are Infidels who say, 'God is the third of three;' for there is no God but one God: and if they refrain not from what they say, a grievous chastisement shall light on such of them as are Infidels.

Will they not, therefore, be thrned unto God, and ask pardon of Him? since God is Forgiving, Merciful!

The Messiah, Son of Mary, is but an Apostle; other Apostles have flourished before him; and his mother was a just person: they both ate food.  Behold! how we make clear to them the signs! then behold how they turn aside.

One can "objectively" understand that the Quran condemnes Christians as "Infidels."

What does the Quran say to do to Infidels?

Sura 9:20something to 30something

Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled.

The Jews say, "Ezra is a son of God'; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is a son of God.'  Such the sayings in their mouths!  They resemble the saying of the Infidels of old!  God do battle with them!  How they are misguided!

The terrorists who flew planes into the World Trade Centers were the obedient Muslims and all who think that Islam is a peaceful religion don't read quotes like these from the Quran, which specifically say to kill all Jews and Christians.

PS: the Qu'ran is simply in error here. The Jews DO NOT claim that Ezra is the Messiah. Who knows where Muhummad got that one.

Are you going to be a "good" Muslim and murder all the Jews and Christians?

[artsylady]

I'm very surprised women are accepting this as their religion. They must have very low self esteem. Did you know that the qu'ran allows for a woman to be beaten? Sure, it's a third resort, after withholding sex and some other control tactic that I can't currently remember, but is this okay with you?

I'd like to know how they compile these stats on Islam being the fasted growing religion anyway. Anyone know? What about the people at my church who answered the altar call last week? Did the statistics people call them??

In any case, Christians do by a long shot outnumber them.

[ayin jade]

Hi Salem,

I have relatives who are muslim, born and raised, not converted. I am more acquainted with the religion than many Americans, and long before 9/11.

there are a few main reasons for most conversions.

1. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious.

Not all who claim to be Christians really are. Those who follow the Lord will do more than go to church on Sunday. Most born agains pray several times a day, not just at meal times. Most born agains live their lives for Christ, every hour of the day. Every aspect of our lives are affected by our love of God, our desire to live for Him.

I would also like to say that it is about a personal relationship with the Lord, not merely how we feel. We desire the closeness to God, and with our faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is upon us, in us. God Himself indwells in us to guide us. How awesome is that! No other

[Guest salem]

I don't outbid on Islam .Islam a brilliant religion by itself and doesn't need me or any preaching or missionary work. i wrote in this community not to convince people to be converted to Islam because this is completely their choice and believe which I respect very much, i have participated to correct the picture and reputation which have been intentionally ravaged by west media.

Islam is frequently misunderstood and may even seem exotic in some parts of today's world. Perhaps this is because religion no longer dominates everyday life in Western society; whereas, for Muslims, Islam is life. Muslims make no artificial division between the secular and the sacred.

For quite some time Islam was thought of as some "Eastern" religion, but with the increasing number of Muslims living in the West, Islam is gradually being perceived as a global faith. Muslims are not thought of as strangers with unusual practices, but are being welcomed as part of the mosaic of life in the West. In many cases, Islam is not just viewed as an acceptable religion, but as a desired way of living.

It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. It is unreasonable to think that so many American converted to Islam without careful consideration and deep contemplation before concluding that Islam is true. These Americans came from different classes, races and walks of life. They include scientists, professors, philosophers, journalists, doctors, nurses, teachers, artists, lawmakers, chefs, laborers, and every other sort of person imaginable.

you can read that some post shows a complete and dangerous lack of comprehension. Islam is a religion, not a terrorist group. The media classifies Muslims as "terrorists," "highjackers" and "kidnappers." So why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam?

David Karesh was a Christian, shall we ban all Christian momentous?

When you compare all of Islam to these terrorists, you essentially say every Sunday clothed bible reading Christian is a Branch Dividian fundamentalist. The linking of such actions to Islam or the Qur

Edited September 27, 2004 by Saved by Grace

[artsylady]

Hello again Salem:

So the real reason you are here is to promote your agenda. That's okay, but let me ask, have you already converted?

No, David Koresh was not a Christian by any means. David Koresh was a cult leader who used parrts of the Bible to control people. He oppressed people, lied to people, separated families, had children with different women. He was not a Christian.

If you want an 'extremist' Christian, it will be someone who takes Christ's teachings to the extreme. I think everyone here would like to be an extremist Christian. An extremist Christian would love at all times, forgive many times over and give like there's no tomorrow.

Your article is very biased. If you're looking to make a decision here, it would be most helpful to look at all sides of the argument, not just the ones promoting it. Wouldn't you agree?

The article is written by a Muslim girl who must think that all Canadian girls are 'Christian'. She sees a girl on the street and assumes she is a Christian. See, that is a serious problem with Muslims from across the ocean. They point to shows like Baywatch and say "look at how the Christians dress!"

Another problem, surprise, is that it doesn't mention that it's okay for a husband to beat his wife. Again, would this be okay with you?

Another problem is that the article dismisses the many references as to how a man is to treat his wife. "Love your wives as Christ loved the church" There are others, but I'm making a point.

There are so many inconsistensies in the qu'ran that it's hard to know what is right and wrong. I can expand on this if you need me to. But some of those Muslim 'Extremists' are actually following the qu'ran. Did you know that? Yes, there are hundreds of verses to tell followers to kill their enemies.

We had a long discussion with another Muslim who has since disappeared. I'll bump it up to the top so you can read through it, because we've already been through much of this, if you don't mind. I'll go find it and tell you where it is.

And since you're looking so methodically at the Muslim religion, would you like to take a look at Jesus and Christianity, with objectivity? Ayin Jade has asked several times but you have not yet answered.

[artsylady]

If you go to the main page of the message boards, you'll see the catagory called 'War on Terrorism" then click on "Annihilate the Annihilators" If you truly want to get a handle on what the qu'ran teaches about killing others, please look through this thread.

[artsylady]

Other things not mentioned in the article you posted, worth mentioning.

When Mohammed apparantly visited paradise and hell during the 'night journey' the Koran reads "the prophet said " I looked into paradise and found that the majority of its dwellers were the poor people and i looked into the (hell) fire and found that the majority of its dwellers were women."

In Muhammed's day, women couldn't walk by a man who was praying because Mohammed said that his prayer would be cancelled out and he would have to start the prayer all over again. "

"Get witnesses out of your men. And if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her". Surah 2:282

Now what does that tell you.

The Prophet said ""Isnt the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man? the woman said "yes." He said "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind".

Hello?

Allah apparantly thinks that a man's inheritance should be double to that of a woman.

Women required to wear veils. It's interesting that this was not 'truth' at the beginning of Muhammed's 'ministry'. It wasn't revealed to him until it was through

Uman, a trusted follower who said. Uman narrating: I said "O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons enter upon you, so I suggest that you order the mothers of the believers (ie, your wives) to observe veils." Then Allah revealed the Verses of the Al-Hijab."

Then apparantly, the angel Gabriel told Muhammed "Oh prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks all over their bodies.... That would be better, that they should be known so as not to be annoyed." Surah 33:39

see also verse 33 and Surah 54:31"

Then later, Muhammed's wife Aisha, said that their heads should also be covered.

"Aisha used to say: "When (the verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered teir faces with the cut peices".

So, this 'truth' was revealed to Muhammed over time. funny how that is.

If a woman is taken in a war, here's what the man can do with her.

"It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (or meses or delivery). In case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive".

The hadith explains when this ruling was made.

"At the Battle of Hanain Allah's messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and their captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husband's being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: "And women already married, except those whom your right hand possesses (iv 24) (i.e. they were lawful for them when their Idda period came to and end."

Again, the truth revealed to Muhammed later? Or is it possible he made it up as he went along?

The Haddith and the Quran make reference to captive women being at the disposal of their masters, even if they were married (Surah 4:24)

Muslim men could release the women from slavery and take them as wives if they chose to do so.

.....

Jesus didn't comment on differences between men and women, but let's see how he treated them. He treated them the same as he treated men. He praised them for their faith, healing illnesses, casted out demons, and forgive their sins.

A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years touched the hem of his garmet as he passed. He felt this and asked who touched him. The woman was afraid because Jewish law said that her bleeding made her unclean and she was not supposed to touch anyone. Jesus said "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering". (Mark 5:21-34)

His comments contradict Muhammed's comments that women are 'deficient in religion'.

Jesus told another woman "Woman you have great faith! Your request is granted!" (matt. 15:28) when he healed her.

Another example: "As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. "I tell you the truth," he said "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave gifts out of their wealth, but she out of poverty put in all she had to live on". Luke 21: 1-4

Are you familiar with the story of the woman who was known for her sinful life? She washed the feet of Jesus while the religious leaders whispered, "If this man were a prophet, he would know this woman was a sinner". Jesus replied "Yes, this woman has sinned much, but her love for me is great as a result." Jesus said to the woman, "Your sins are forgiven". Luke 7:36-50

Jesus also stopped a woman from being stoned, saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. When they all left Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you.. Go now and leave your life of sin". (John 8:11)

There are many more examples of Jesus healing of women, like these.

Muhammed allowed Muslim men to have as many as 4 wives, but he himself had 12. The youngest was Aisha - whom he married at 6 years old. Now that's just SICK!

Anyway, I hope you're getting the picture. There are many more references from both Jesus and Muhammed but clearly Jesus loved women as much as men and clearly Muhammed saw them as inferior. If you want or need more examples, I'll provide them, but I suggest you pick up this book. Jesus and Mohammed, Profound Differences and Surprising Similiarties" by Mark A. Gabriel, former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University, Cairo Egypt.

[artsylady]

Proverbs 31

10 [3] A wife of noble character who can find?

She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her

and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,

all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax

and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,

bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;

she provides food for her family

and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;

out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;

her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,

and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff

and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor

and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;

for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;

she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,

where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,

and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;

she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,

and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household

and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;

her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,

but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;

but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,

and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

Take a look at how God sees women! I highlighted one part because it sounds like this woman is a business woman! Now, on the other hand, Muhammed saw women as being half as intelligent and half as good as a man.

God used MANY women. There are chapters and even books dedicated solely to some of these women. There are so many references of Godly, respected woman that I just can't post them all.

But if you want some more, I'll provided them.