Degree of SIn? OPINION question.

[GlidingWings]

Well Stacey and Dennis this question presented by the opener poster that I happen to live with is not asking anyone if Jesus can not forgive any sin by any severity. She knows already that Jesus can forgive any sin of any severity..

However this question pertains to if sin in any way has any severity of degree even whether Jesus can or does forgive any sin or not. She presented this question just as a topical question for members to discuss.

I believe when you say that Jesus can forgive all sin in that way from one who confesses their Sin and repents can be saved by any sin they have done in the past.

But this is being over looked in this. Before you were saved you might have been a drunkard. You may have said I had a problem with drinking before I was saved but now I don’t drink. But can you say after you were saved. Now that I am saved I don’t sin at all? . Can one say even after they were saved that they no longer Sin against God? But even when a person is saved they are still sinners. But there is actually a difference in the severity of their sins they do now while they were saved compared to those sins they did before they were saved. We need to still confess our sins even if the severity is less than what we did before we knew Jesus. Or thus we make ourselves unrighteous that now we may believe because I am saved. Every sin is washed and now every sin I do is also washed by Jesus. Jesus said let He throw the stone that does not Sin. No one can claim to not be a sinner. The fact is your severity of sin has lessened much greater than before you were saved. You might try every day to try not to sin but it is not possible for man to eradicate all our sins. Jesus said no one is good not even one.

The Judgments of the Old Testament shows us some good examples how God discerns severity of Sin. Why would God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? And why did not God destroy the other cities along with it? Were the other cities without sin of any severity and what about the Days of Noah’s flood? The Bible says that Sin was great in the World that the wickedness in men had increased greatly. All this violence and corruption and its severity caused the Great Flood of Noah’s day. Before those days of Noah can we say that people were not sinning before that time? Sure they were. But there was a difference in the severity of their sin. It was not as severe back then before the days of Noah.

Take a look at what John the Baptist says. He said to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You brood o f vipers who warned you to flee the wrath of God but bear fruits worthy of repentance. Why does John the Baptist need to make any emphasis on any group of any people if anyone can be saved? The emphasis was that the Pharisees and Sadducees sin was greater among others. Yes they could be saved if they also repent too. But I don’t overlook when God takes an emphasis on certain things others have done.

Jesus said to those like the Pharisees. He said Tax collectors and Prostitutes will go to the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.

If there is no severity in sin for any person why should Jesus tell the Pharisees that another sin has more chance to enter the kingdom of Heaven? Jesus said if you can not surpass that of a Pharisee or a Sadducee in your ways you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What was so disturbing about this?

Well you see the Pharisees were both political and religious. And they held to the Laws of the old. By every Law they had to be Judgmental being harsh to any who broke any law of any sort not having mercy upon other people being up righteous. The Sadducees were not of religion. But they were self righteous people a class of people who considered themselves higher than others.

But simply a prostitute sinned she did not feel to be a righteous woman just because she sinned not in boasting. A tax collector neither could make himself say he was righteous among God.

The Pharisees claimed to be of God that they can ordain the Laws of God. But they did this in a wicked way that got our attention why Jesus points out these groups in the Bible.

We still sin today by a certain degree still. And God has discerned our sins even of today. We do not do those severe sins we have done in the past. We can not be randomly practicing Witch craft. Wicca is a very serious demonic sin but you might one day get upset at your friend and you will say some vile words to that friend. It slips sometimes the tongue to curse another or at something when we are upset. So we are not without sin totally.

We are not saved of our own. But God knows the difference of our sin today compared to the ones we have done in the past. Jesus said be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. But why is Jesus asking us to be perfect? We know man is not perfect. We know man will never be perfect in this life. Why does Jesus ask us to do what we ourselves can’t because we fall short of the Glory of God? Jesus gave us the Laws of Sin. But we could not fulfill them all in perfection. We however try to strive in perfection. But without Jesus that perfection will never be perfect. All we can say is Lord we did our best but look I’m still not perfect. And the Lord says. I can see you have tried and all your efforts I will complete the work. So Jesus laid out His hands stretching them out on the cross and dying saying. It is finished.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am sorry to say but I strongly disagree with Shiloh, Stacey and Dennis on their Biblical views. .

I can't speak for stacey or Denniis, but frankly, you don't have a clue about my biblical views on this. The rest of your post is a bunch of rambling about something I did not say or address, so please do not assign values to me that I did intend or in any communicate.

[stacey c]

Well Stacey and Dennis this question presented by the opener poster that I happen to live with is not asking anyone if Jesus can not forgive any sin by any severity. She knows already that Jesus can forgive any sin of any severity..

However this question pertains to if sin in any way has any severity of degree even whether Jesus can or does forgive any sin or not. She presented this question just as a topical question for members to discuss.

I believe when you say that Jesus can forgive all sin in that way from one who confesses their Sin and repents can be saved by any sin they have done in the past.

But this is being over looked in this. Before you were saved you might have been a drunkard. You may have said I had a problem with drinking before I was saved but now I don’t drink. But can you say after you were saved. Now that I am saved I don’t sin at all? . Can one say even after they were saved that they no longer Sin against God? But even when a person is saved they are still sinners. But there is actually a difference in the severity of their sins they do now while they were saved compared to those sins they did before they were saved. We need to still confess our sins even if the severity is less than what we did before we knew Jesus. Or thus we make ourselves unrighteous that now we may believe because I am saved. Every sin is washed and now every sin I do is also washed by Jesus. Jesus said let He throw the stone that does not Sin. No one can claim to not be a sinner. The fact is your severity of sin has lessened much greater than before you were saved. You might try every day to try not to sin but it is not possible for man to eradicate all our sins. Jesus said no one is good not even one.

The Judgments of the Old Testament shows us some good examples how God discerns severity of Sin. Why would God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? And why did not God destroy the other cities along with it? Were the other cities without sin of any severity and what about the Days of Noah’s flood? The Bible says that Sin was great in the World that the wickedness in men had increased greatly. All this violence and corruption and its severity caused the Great Flood of Noah’s day. Before those days of Noah can we say that people were not sinning before that time? Sure they were. But there was a difference in the severity of their sin. It was not as severe back then before the days of Noah.

Take a look at what John the Baptist says. He said to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You brood o f vipers who warned you to flee the wrath of God but bear fruits worthy of repentance. Why does John the Baptist need to make any emphasis on any group of any people if anyone can be saved? The emphasis was that the Pharisees and Sadducees sin was greater among others. Yes they could be saved if they also repent too. But I don’t overlook when God takes an emphasis on certain things others have done.

Jesus said to those like the Pharisees. He said Tax collectors and Prostitutes will go to the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.

If there is no severity in sin for any person why should Jesus tell the Pharisees that another sin has more chance to enter the kingdom of Heaven? Jesus said if you can not surpass that of a Pharisee or a Sadducee in your ways you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What was so disturbing about this?

Well you see the Pharisees were both political and religious. And they held to the Laws of the old. By every Law they had to be Judgmental being harsh to any who broke any law of any sort not having mercy upon other people being up righteous. The Sadducees were not of religion. But they were self righteous people a class of people who considered themselves higher than others.

But simply a prostitute sinned she did not feel to be a righteous woman just because she sinned not in boasting. A tax collector neither could make himself say he was righteous among God.

The Pharisees claimed to be of God that they can ordain the Laws of God. But they did this in a wicked way that got our attention why Jesus points out these groups in the Bible.

We still sin today by a certain degree still. And God has discerned our sins even of today. We do not do those severe sins we have done in the past. We can not be randomly practicing Witch craft. Wicca is a very serious demonic sin but you might one day get upset at your friend and you will say some vile words to that friend. It slips sometimes the tongue to curse another or at something when we are upset. So we are not without sin totally.

We are not saved of our own. But God knows the difference of our sin today compared to the ones we have done in the past. Jesus said be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. But why is Jesus asking us to be perfect? We know man is not perfect. We know man will never be perfect in this life. Why does Jesus ask us to do what we ourselves can’t because we fall short of the Glory of God? Jesus gave us the Laws of Sin. But we could not fulfill them all in perfection. We however try to strive in perfection. But without Jesus that perfection will never be perfect. All we can say is Lord we did our best but look I’m still not perfect. And the Lord says. I can see you have tried and all your efforts I will complete the work. So Jesus laid out His hands stretching them out on the cross and dying saying. It is finished.

Wow brother your post s are all over the place

I know exactly what the OP asked, my respones was.......let me clarify......... when you are asking a MANS OPINION of what sins are more severe than others you are putting yourself on a slippery slope into a pharissee spirit.

Jesus told the pharissees' "you are like white washed seplecurs, clean on the out side but full of dead mans bones...."

When we look at sins according to what we feel are worse, instead of how God views sins, we can enter into a spirit of pride and self righteousness.

Not once has anyone eversaid they have not sinned or fallen short after salvation, for we all fall short.

[OldShep]

Well Stacey and Dennis this question presented by the opener poster that I happen to live with is not asking anyone if Jesus can not forgive any sin by any severity. She knows already that Jesus can forgive any sin of any severity..

However this question pertains to if sin in any way has any severity of degree even whether Jesus can or does forgive any sin or not. She presented this question just as a topical question for members to discuss.

I believe when you say that Jesus can forgive all sin in that way from one who confesses their Sin and repents can be saved by any sin they have done in the past.

But this is being over looked in this. Before you were saved you might have been a drunkard. You may have said I had a problem with drinking before I was saved but now I don’t drink. But can you say after you were saved. Now that I am saved I don’t sin at all? . Can one say even after they were saved that they no longer Sin against God? But even when a person is saved they are still sinners. But there is actually a difference in the severity of their sins they do now while they were saved compared to those sins they did before they were saved. We need to still confess our sins even if the severity is less than what we did before we knew Jesus. Or thus we make ourselves unrighteous that now we may believe because I am saved. Every sin is washed and now every sin I do is also washed by Jesus. Jesus said let He throw the stone that does not Sin. No one can claim to not be a sinner. The fact is your severity of sin has lessened much greater than before you were saved. You might try every day to try not to sin but it is not possible for man to eradicate all our sins. Jesus said no one is good not even one.

The Judgments of the Old Testament shows us some good examples how God discerns severity of Sin. Why would God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? And why did not God destroy the other cities along with it? Were the other cities without sin of any severity and what about the Days of Noah’s flood? The Bible says that Sin was great in the World that the wickedness in men had increased greatly. All this violence and corruption and its severity caused the Great Flood of Noah’s day. Before those days of Noah can we say that people were not sinning before that time? Sure they were. But there was a difference in the severity of their sin. It was not as severe back then before the days of Noah.

Take a look at what John the Baptist says. He said to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You brood o f vipers who warned you to flee the wrath of God but bear fruits worthy of repentance. Why does John the Baptist need to make any emphasis on any group of any people if anyone can be saved? The emphasis was that the Pharisees and Sadducees sin was greater among others. Yes they could be saved if they also repent too. But I don’t overlook when God takes an emphasis on certain things others have done.

Jesus said to those like the Pharisees. He said Tax collectors and Prostitutes will go to the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.

If there is no severity in sin for any person why should Jesus tell the Pharisees that another sin has more chance to enter the kingdom of Heaven? Jesus said if you can not surpass that of a Pharisee or a Sadducee in your ways you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What was so disturbing about this?

Well you see the Pharisees were both political and religious. And they held to the Laws of the old. By every Law they had to be Judgmental being harsh to any who broke any law of any sort not having mercy upon other people being up righteous. The Sadducees were not of religion. But they were self righteous people a class of people who considered themselves higher than others.

But simply a prostitute sinned she did not feel to be a righteous woman just because she sinned not in boasting. A tax collector neither could make himself say he was righteous among God.

The Pharisees claimed to be of God that they can ordain the Laws of God. But they did this in a wicked way that got our attention why Jesus points out these groups in the Bible.

We still sin today by a certain degree still. And God has discerned our sins even of today. We do not do those severe sins we have done in the past. We can not be randomly practicing Witch craft. Wicca is a very serious demonic sin but you might one day get upset at your friend and you will say some vile words to that friend. It slips sometimes the tongue to curse another or at something when we are upset. So we are not without sin totally.

We are not saved of our own. But God knows the difference of our sin today compared to the ones we have done in the past. Jesus said be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. But why is Jesus asking us to be perfect? We know man is not perfect. We know man will never be perfect in this life. Why does Jesus ask us to do what we ourselves can’t because we fall short of the Glory of God? Jesus gave us the Laws of Sin. But we could not fulfill them all in perfection. We however try to strive in perfection. But without Jesus that perfection will never be perfect. All we can say is Lord we did our best but look I’m still not perfect. And the Lord says. I can see you have tried and all your efforts I will complete the work. So Jesus laid out His hands stretching them out on the cross and dying saying. It is finished.

Well now, the wording of the question posted included limitations on how one was to respond and it failed to bring to light the real question that the poster had on their mind. A problem we see often in the words we write, for we can not seek clarification at the moment the question is asked.

If I may, to set it staight, you wish to know if after being saved, is there a degree of sin which the Father would measure, in the true believers in Jesus Christ. Is this correct?

ICL Dennis

[Waiting2BwithHim]

As you noticed I capitalized the word opinion.

I did with good reason. I want to stress the point that replies are your personal opinions and not fact from the Bible.

I tried posting this at other forums and I either had gotten the same answer that sin is sin. (which I know)

Or I had started some small debates which led me to not any answer that I was trying to find out.

So I'm going to try it again here by phrasing this differently.

(Please keep in mind that I just want YOUR OPINION) I don't want any biblical scriptures because it is going to be that sin is sin.

Basically do you believe that there are some sins that would be considered to be worse then others in the eyes of God.

Example being that Murder is to be worse then stealing ...

Now what about other sins? Which ones and where do they rank in you OPINION?

Since I am the original OP I will try to set things straight the best I could with what I was trying to find out.

But first in maybe understanding about all the confusion with the replies that I read which I still believe are good no matter what..

some of these replies seemed to me that it was the understanding that I know the Bible.

With that said and in response to that I do but I don't. With the things I do know I try to apply in what I can and with the things I don't I try to ask BTC. I know that sometimes he is hard to understand and that is because of the fact that he is blind and deaf when I sign to him I am signing

to him every single word that is said and now realizing that maybe in the translations of signing somethings aren't understood correctly.

Also there is the fact that I and of course no one here can ask the question verbally and get responses quickly enough if not in person.

So if there 's a misunderstanding happening I couldn't say to the one person..Please wait You're not understanding me correctly. This is what I actually mean.

So now as i read this thread it seems like it is going in a direction that I would feel the need to apologize for because I don't

when something will be taken correctly or not. On behalf of the BTC I do have to thank him for trying to post what I was trying to ask.

He understands me best and even though I understand him best if a question is not answered to what i am originally asking he

will jump in sometimes and see if he can help with the understanding to others.

Somewhere in this thread I finally got the answer that I was looking for because somehow the original idea had gotten understood.

But if I may I would like to ask it again with the prayers that it will not go out of hand to me again.

I wanted just opinions not bible fact because I know the Lord doesn't like sin.

But I was asking in a way with one particular sin that you may be plagued with that it is addicting to a person

if they are truly sorry but keep stumbling by the time of their death they still confess to know they were wrong

could they still be saved?

Now in all honesty when I read out loud to myself what I just wrote it sounded the correct way.

If this still sounds like to you that I am not clarifying myself correctly please try to ask me with a question of your own.

I will admit signing all the posts to BTC is not easy but sometimes he is right on the mark and members do understand

what is trying to be said.

From the bottom of my heart I am sorry for the way this is turning out

My understanding is constant but I never at times have the right words to convey what I want to know.

This would be so much easier if we all could be in the same room at the same time. Don't you think so?

[OldShep]

But I was asking in a way with one particular sin that you may be plagued with that it is addicting to a person

if they are truly sorry but keep stumbling by the time of their death they still confess to know they were wrong

could they still be saved?

It is my understanding and my opinion, that Jesus Christ, knows my heart from the inside out. When I turned to Jesus, He was able to see ALL of my sins/ choices that I have made and will make in the time to come. His forgiveness is not like that of man, for He knows the Heart and the desires of the Heart, I may fall down and sin again and again, yet in my Heart I do not wish to sin. So my Lord takes this into account and has forgiven all that I have done and all that I struggle against. He helps me to overcome the desires of this world and slowly I am being transformed into his likeness, by his Glory.

So it is my opinion that a person that is plagued with addictions, that really, truly, wants to change, is one of the reasons why my Lord Jesus, choose to died on a cross for that person sins.

So YES that person would be saved.

This would be so much easier if we all could be in the same room at the same time. Don't you think so?

Yes, I do think so.

I Hope this answers your question.

[EricH]

It depends on what you mean by "worse sins". In one sense all sin is the same. The wages of all sin is death (separation from God). In another sense, some sins have more dire consequences for us and others.

By way of illustration, all volcanoes have at their source the same molten rock. It is not that the molten rock of some volcanoes is worse than others. It is all the same and comes from the earth's core. But, some volcanoes are active and some are not. Some are big and some are small. Some devastate cities and others simply flow into the ocean.

It is the same with our sin. All sin has at it's root a mistrust of God. But the way it comes to the surface in different lives varies from person to person and from situation to situation.

[Massorite]

As you noticed I capitalized the word opinion.

I did with good reason. I want to stress the point that replies are your personal opinions and not fact from the Bible.

I tried posting this at other forums and I either had gotten the same answer that sin is sin. (which I know)

Or I had started some small debates which led me to not any answer that I was trying to find out.

So I'm going to try it again here by phrasing this differently.

(Please keep in mind that I just want YOUR OPINION) I don't want any biblical scriptures because it is going to be that sin is sin.

Basically do you believe that there are some sins that would be considered to be worse then others in the eyes of God.

Example being that Murder is to be worse then stealing ...

Now what about other sins? Which ones and where do they rank in you OPINION?

That is a good question. Even in scripture apparently not all sins are worthy of the same punishment. One or some are worthy of a death penelty and some are not.

[cooterhein]

Basically do you believe that there are some sins that would be considered to be worse then others in the eyes of God.

Absolutely. Some sins are much worse than others. All sin grieves God, all sin that Christians do grieves the Holy Spirit, and in terms that are more familiar to small children, all sin has to do with things that you think, say, or do that makes God sad. (There are hand motions that go along with this). And of course, some sin grieves God (or makes Him sad) to a greater degree than others. It could be expressed in terms of a simple continuum on which all types of sin find some place. All of them grieve God to some extent, and all of them merit some type of bad consequence from an eternal perspective. But some are worse than others, and some merit a comparatively worse consequences.

I do believe God sees only one continuum, though. My personal opinion is that God doesn't see two separate continuums that segregate light sins from the truly serious ones while assigning completely different kinds of consequences to them- until the light sins pile up to an undefined point, of course, in which case they would snowball into a consistent pattern of sin that merits serious consequences. In my opinion, there's only one continuum. But on that continuum, any given sin is going to be worse than some and not as bad as others.

Example being that Murder is to be worse then stealing ...

Now what about other sins? Which ones and where do they rank in you OPINION?

Murder in the first degree would be worse than murder in the second degree, and both of these would be worse than stealing in nearly every scenario. There are a lot of different things you could steal, of course, so it kind of depends on what it is. Depending on what's stolen and who it's stolen from, one type of stealing could be far more serious than another type of stealing. For example, intellectual theft of an idea that prevents someone from getting a patent and launching their career in a major way is worse than, say, twenty dollars' worth of internet piracy via illegal download. The first type of theft could be even worse if you've betrayed the trust of a close friend, and the second type could also be worse- if, for example, you illegally download substantially more than twenty dollars' worth of material and use or distribute it in some way that profits you. Like if you own a club and download thousands of dollars worth of music so you can play the best songs at your club without having to pay for any of them- that would be more serious than taking twenty dollars' worth for personal use. Yes, they're both sin, but it's clear to me that one is far more serious than the other.

That's how it tends to look in the eyes of the law, too. And most of the time- not all the time, but at least in principle- the law of the land tends to be well-founded, at least in its general principles. Different kinds of offenses are punished to different degrees and with different types of severity, and it's usually not at all arbitrary. If it's true that sin is all equal in the eyes of God, the legal system of every country in the world since the beginning of time must have really missed the boat. Forget about natural law; we must not have any clue whatsoever.

Edited October 13, 2011 by cooterhein

[LessThan Any]

"Very simply scripture does teach that there are differences in sins, both in the OT (Old Testament) and in the NT (New Testament). In the OT, if you read carefully in the laws given to Moses, the only punishment for known sins commited on purpose is death. For sins committed in ignorance, when it becomes known, a way is provided to make atonement for them usually by means of a sacrifice.

In the NT, there is a sin, which is NOT unto death (I John 5:16), but there is also a sin, which is unto death.

All of us are or have been sinners, but not all of us are reprobates. God is no respecter of persons. He treats everyone the same. But... all of us are not the same. We are not the same because we started out with different make-ups and we walked down different pathways making different decisions.

If I as an old believer were to decide to and then go ahead and chew out another person for falling short of God's glory, the judgment of God upon me would very likely be harsher than it would for the person who did the same thing the first day of his walk with God.

Consider also how many times the natural children of Jacob [israel] provoked God before He cut them off from the promised land. In the case of Moses, he lost his entrance to the promised land for one transgression.

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48