How important is theology for evangelists?

[Isaiah 6:8]

I think what we have here is an argument of semantics, and have gotten into a debate but lets look at Candice's original op.

Well I'm not called to be a teacher, apart from the mentoring that happens when someone gets saved. I'm an evangelist. But I'm kinda aware of the fact that my theology has areas that needs lots of improvement, and revision since I left the wofer church I got saved in. So how important is theology to evangelists? I love studying it, that doesn't mean I am brilliant at it though.

You see its that last part that is causing the whole issue. You see, I know Candice well enough to know she does just fine as an Evangelist. Her very op is about higher theology, and even how she left the first church where she first got saved in. She is not speaking here of the basic theology of who God is, who we are, who Jesus is, and why we need him. She was speaking of higher theology and stuff that can only really be understood and dealt with on this side of the fence, as an unbeliever can not fully fathom a lot of it.

This higher Theology or study of God is not needed to reach people. Again all you need for a basic gospel message is to know Jesus and understanding what he did for you. If you have not, Try watching the video Here is a man of God who for years and years and years and was responsible for thousands of souls saved, and yet he never said more to them then. "Are you saved, and if you died tonight are going to heaven?" While handing them a Gospel tract.

Yes any study of God can be labeled theology, and Andy you may correct me if I am wrong but I don't think she was asking about that.

Now it comes down to this, is knowledge or the spirit more important? I would say both are important, both have there place but the most important thing is love. Now by Love I am speaking of 1 Cor 13 love, the Love of God.

You see I have won theologacial debates and lost the person. I Have been blown out of the water as a teenager by the question of where did God come from. You see I have failed on both places. I have lead a person to Christ using the knowledge I have received by a life time of witnessing and training as a missionary. I have also lead people to Christ by simply blessing them with a tank of Gas when they were stranded, and being lead by the spirit, was able to lead him to Christ, and he already knew the basics, he had not yet made the leap. You see at both times it was the Love of the Lord that lead me.

You see a good base of Apologetic theology is always helpful, but we all learn. Is one who just becomes a christian to wait until he goes off to seminary or bible college to start telling people of what the Lord has done? Is that not what a witness is but simply one that describes what he has seen the Lord do? What about youth, such as I was a young 13 or 14 year old boy when I was blown out of the water by an atheist that I attempted to witness to. Yes I have seen scripture pulled to prove both sides of the argument, lets use common sense. Yes, if your called to be an Evangelist, it is good and even to be studied up on the basics of Apologetic theology.

Is there room for mistakes? There has to be, as I don't know a single perfect person who has a perfect theology outside of Christ. Remember, as it has been said before we do not save anyone, Jesus does, all we need to do is point to him, through our lives, our words and our deed. If you have not blown a witnessing opportunity, that means you are not witnessing. I would rather people try and fail, with the chance of planting a seed and learning, then not ever trying to lead someone to Christ.

As for the office of Evangelist, if you are called, yes, equip yourself the best you can, but I would say study those things that pertain to witnessing first and foremost. Good sound answers to atheists, and evolution, Muslims, and Mormons, yes they all have things that need to be known to effectively debate and lead them to Jesus. But again, never forget, it is not us who does the saving, all we do is point the way.

One last thought, I was always taught by all the Evangelists in my church, that there was one, most important thing when it came to evangelism. That was Prayer. Effective evangelism starts with prayer. Even spur of the moment times, like when that guy ran out of gas, my wife prayed while I talked, even a "Help give me wisdom" Lord as you start can be effective.

Yes you do need to know God to make him known. Yes Missionary's train a lot to go on missions trip, but what ever level you are, be ready to tell people about Jesus.

[Fez]

On a different tack....

I have found that the best way for me to evangelize is to walk in the Word. Let actions speak for you.

A small example from my workday today.....

I work for a hard man, one who is constantly critical, and uses transference as a management tool. If he has a problem he transfers his anxiety and fear onto those who work for him, It makes him feel better...for five minutes.

Today I was out in the park with him and we were dealing with a whole heap of problems at once. He was in a foul mood, and every second word out of his mouth, about situations, people, contractors, etc was the F word. Almost non stop....

But every time he swore he would say "Sorry "Fez", and then proceed to do it again.

See he knows I am a Christian, he knows I don't act that way. He knows I don't lose it with people, and he knows I treat them with grace. He has already told me he see's it as a weakness that I trust people and treat them with respect.

And that alone is evangelizing.....

[Guest yod]

I am not offering up a "theology vs. the Holy Spirit argument. YOU are the one doing that. Theology is necessary, but I am not saying it is necessary because it is better or more important than relying on the Holy Spirit. You are the one assigning that value to my argument. One can be a very studious and skilled theologian and still have a passion for raching the lost and live a life in reliance on the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. If iyou cannot accept that, then you have a very skewed and grossly flawed uinderstanding of the value and purpose of theology in the life of a believer.

Then I have a skewed and grossly flawed understanding of the value and purpose of theology

Now that I know how wrong I am there is nothing left to talk about, is there? But before I drop out of this completely, I'd like to mention that there are seminaries full of people who can explain the theology of Christianity but have no relationship with the Lord.

The biggest problem is everyone's "theology" allows them enough intellectual leeway to think they have God all figured out. They can then throw a blanket of theology over anything they don't understand or like.

Only one person I can think of had perfect theology...and the other theologians made sure He was crucified for it.

[Guest shiloh357]

Then I have a skewed and grossly flawed understanding of the value and purpose of theology

Now that I know how wrong I am there is nothing left to talk about, is there?

There is a lot to talk about actually. I apologize, I should have worded that differently and less harshly. The thing is yod, you really don't understand what theology is. That can be seen in how you keep trying to define it by such a narrow definition in order to paint it in the most negative light available. You keeping trying to put theology in ivory towers and those who study it are painted as unbelievers who simply have head knowledge of the Bible and now they are being lumped in with pharisees.

But before I drop out of this completely, I'd like to mention that there are seminaries full of people who can explain the theology of Christianity but have no relationship with the Lord.

Ah yes, here we go... You know what yod??? Many seminiary professors are people who are retired evangelists, pastors and missionaries. They spent their lives in the field, reaching people for Christ in the US and all over the world. They often bring decades of real life experience to their classroom. They mentor young and up and coming missionaries, teachers, pastors, evangelists, etc. They have the ability to help students avoid potholes and obstacles to successful ministry. Many of those seminary professors have been doctors and educators who have helped build hospitals and schools for children in other countries who would not have gotten medical treatment and education from their own governments. They have helped provide clean water and sanitation all over the continents of Africa and South America. They translated Bible for people who had no Bible in their native language. Their education opened up avenues and opportunities that many of us only dream of.

Seminiary professors are generally people who have given a lifetime of evidence to their love for Christ and their commitment to seeing the world come to Christ. That is true at least, for the seminaries that I am familar with and I am familiar with several of them. Seminaries don't hire professors on the basis of degrees or head knowledge. Their entire scope of ministry and their life and character and walk with the Lord are the major factors they consider. That is why your silly comparison with the Pharisees at the end of your post is such a joke. There is always a bad apple, but to make the blanket accusation that they are full of people who have no relationship with Christ is, again, speaking from a place of ignorance. You are venturing into terrritory with a comment that could very well end up causing you to make a fool out of yourself.

The biggest problem is everyone's "theology" allows them enough intellectual leeway to think they have God all figured out. They can then throw a blanket of theology over anything they don't understand or like.

That is a value you are assigning to others. Theology is not about "figuring" God out. Theology is a path of discovery. We study, learn and share. As I said earlier, theology is involved in every sphere of the Christian life. There is no facet of your existence that is not impacted by theology. Whether you are witnessing, worshipping, or sharing the gospel, theology is there. You cannot escape. For the Christian, theology reaches into and addresses every part of life. There is simply NO way you can speak of your relationship with God and not employ theology to do it.

Only one person I can think of had perfect theology...and the other theologians made sure He was crucified for it.

I see, so now. So now theologians are being lumped in with the pharisees??? See, that is the kind of thing that only makes my point about how little you really know about theologians. So you have to compare theologians with the worst group you can think of??? I am surprised, yod because I would have expected better from you.

The Pharisees did not seek to have to Jesus crucified over theology per se. Jesus was, more than anything else, a political threat. Jesus claim to be Lord and God, which rivaled the Caesar's claim to be both Lord and God. Jesus was hailed by the people as the King/Messiah and that was also rivaling the rule of Herod and Rome as well. There is evidence in Scripture is that the Pharisees knew Jesus was the Messiah and they hated Him all the more for it. Jesus' clashes with the pharisees over tradition and theology were not uncommon among the Rabbis and were typical of among the different orders of Pharieees that existed at that time. They all debated over theology and no one was killing each other over it. Jesus' claims though, posted a much more serious problem and the Phariesees were eager to protect both their control over the masses, and to continue currying the favor of Rome. Jesus was a threat to their positions of power, as He exposed their corruption both as spritiual leaders and as a political entity. The last thing they wanted was a "Messiah."

[nebula]

Many seminiary professors are people who are retired evangelists, pastors and missionaries. ...

My experience with Bible professors are liberal theologians who are more interested in fitting Christianity into the world's system of skepticism.

Where did you find these people?

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree with this Shiloh, it is the Holy Spirit who does all these things for us. And for the record I know more teachers who have gone through a four year bible college and all they seem to be able to do is parrot what their teachers taught them, I know only a few who told me they had to let go of a lot of what they were taught because after years of teaching it found it wasn't really biblical.

Well mizzdy, that depends on where you attend. Not all Bible colleges, Christian univerities and seminaries are created equal. You have some that are more conserative, and some that are more liberal. Some have calvinist leanings and others don't. It is important for prospective student to visit the campus, ask questions and learn about the school and what they believe and how they lean BEFORE deciding to learn there. The seminary I have considered is a very conserative one and the president AND provost of that school are very strong advocates and supporters of Israel which influenced my decision.

I would also point out that there is a lot more seminary than book learning. Most students are already out in the field ministering has pastors, youth leaders, music leaders and so on. They are not simply people who sit around with books all day. They have a passion for ministry and for the Lord and they take what they learn and put it into practice. You won't agree with every professor on every point, but it is still a valuable experience, nonetheless.

[Guest yod]

My experience with Bible professors are liberal theologians who are more interested in fitting Christianity into the world's system of skepticism.

and that seems to be the overwhelming majority of theologians in the overwhelming majority of seminaries worldwide.

Which is why theology has a bad connotation to me. So after all this, I think I understand the OP.

Yes, theology informs one's faith so it's necessary and extremely beneficial for an evangelist to study the ways of God in order to be able to respond to the Holy Spirit's leading.

I see, so now. So now theologians are being lumped in with the pharisees??? See, that is the kind of thing that only makes my point about how little you really know about theologians. So you have to compare theologians with the worst group you can think of??? I am surprised, yod because I would have expected better from you.

Were the Pharisees not considered to be the top theologians in Israel? Were there any others? The Saducees didn't even seem to have a desire for faith or theology from what I can tell.

Who else was there? Romans? Greeks?

The Pharisees did not seek to have to Jesus crucified over theology per se. Jesus was, more than anything else, a political threat. Jesus claim to be Lord and God, which rivaled the Caesar's claim to be both Lord and God. Jesus was hailed by the people as the King/Messiah and that was also rivaling the rule of Herod and Rome as well. There is evidence in Scripture is that the Pharisees knew Jesus was the Messiah and they hated Him all the more for it. Jesus' clashes with the pharisees over tradition and theology were not uncommon among the Rabbis and were typical of among the different orders of Pharieees that existed at that time. They all debated over theology and no one was killing each other over it. Jesus' claims though, posted a much more serious problem and the Phariesees were eager to protect both their control over the masses, and to continue currying the favor of Rome. Jesus was a threat to their positions of power, as He exposed their corruption both as spritiual leaders and as a political entity. The last thing they wanted was a "Messiah."

Now I get to use your broad definition.....

According to the way you are defining this word, all of that is theology!

[Guest shiloh357]

Many seminiary professors are people who are retired evangelists, pastors and missionaries. ...

My experience with Bible professors are liberal theologians who are more interested in fitting Christianity into the world's system of skepticism.

Where did you find these people?

You are talking about professors who lean on higher criticism which is a very liberal theological position that has been falling out of use as of late. Many of these professors work in secular universities and liberal arts colleges that have a liberal bent themselves. Some very liberal seminaries in Europe still fit the mold you are speaking of. Like I said to mizzdy, not all schools are created equal.

Not all Bible scholars are Christian scholars. There are Bible professors who study the Bible their entire lives and don't believe a word of it. But you don't find them in seminaries, generally speaking. You find them teaching in the religion departments of secular and often very liberal universities. Most of the "bible scholars" on the History channel fall into that category.

[Guest shiloh357]

nebula, on 17 September 2011 - 06:27 AM, said:

My experience with Bible professors are liberal theologians who are more interested in fitting Christianity into the world's system of skepticism.

and that seems to be the overwhelming majority of theologians in the overwhelming majority of seminaries worldwide.

Frankly yod, that is a completely inaccurate and false statement. You don't know anything about theologians or seminaries and are not in a position to make such unfair and ridiculous accusations.

Which is why theology has a bad connotation to me. So after all this, I think I understand the OP.

Theology has a bad connotation because you want it to. And no, you don't understand the OP. You have continuously been assigning a false value to the question she asked all through the this thread.

Quote

I see, so now. So now theologians are being lumped in with the pharisees??? See, that is the kind of thing that only makes my point about how little you really know about theologians. So you have to compare theologians with the worst group you can think of??? I am surprised, yod because I would have expected better from you.

Were the Pharisees not considered to be the top theologians in Israel? Were there any others? The Saducees didn't even seem to have a desire for faith or theology from what I can tell.

Again, that does not really address the problem. You are making a blanket character comparison based on both an incorrect recollection of history and an incorrect connotation of "theologians" and "theology." The Pharisees were the theologians of their day that is true, but as someone like you who has been to Israel and has presumably studied all this out, it was not "the pharisees" who sought Jesus' death, but it was his detractors among them. It was cabal of corrupt Jewish leadership in Jerusalem that sought to have Him crucified. One thing I learned early on is that it is best not to make such blanket, sweeping accusations of any group. Not all phariees hated Jesus, not all of them were hypocrites, and not all of them were there the night of His trial.

What you are doing is as bad as anti-Semites do when they make the same broad, sweeping accusations about Jews. They take Jesus' enemies and trot them out as representative of the whole, when such accusations are not fair. It is likewise, equally unfair for you to lump theologians (whom you do not know and have never met) in with Jesus' enemies as if they are all cut from the same cloth.

Quote

The Pharisees did not seek to have to Jesus crucified over theology per se. Jesus was, more than anything else, a political threat. Jesus claim to be Lord and God, which rivaled the Caesar's claim to be both Lord and God. Jesus was hailed by the people as the King/Messiah and that was also rivaling the rule of Herod and Rome as well. There is evidence in Scripture is that the Pharisees knew Jesus was the Messiah and they hated Him all the more for it. Jesus' clashes with the pharisees over tradition and theology were not uncommon among the Rabbis and were typical of among the different orders of Pharieees that existed at that time. They all debated over theology and no one was killing each other over it. Jesus' claims though, posted a much more serious problem and the Phariesees were eager to protect both their control over the masses, and to continue currying the favor of Rome. Jesus was a threat to their positions of power, as He exposed their corruption both as spritiual leaders and as a political entity. The last thing they wanted was a "Messiah."

Now I get to use your broad definition.....

According to the way you are defining this word, all of that is theology!

I did not say it wasn't theology. I said that the pharisees did not kill Jesus for theological reasons, per se. They did not seek Jesus' death because his theology was different than theirs. Jesus' claims to be Lord and God also presented serious political problems as did the fact that He was hailed as King and Messiah. In that day, "Lord and "Messiah" were poltical titles. For Jesus take on both signified His rule over both the Jewish and Gentile world. He was both King of the Jews and Lord over all entire world, which at the time was mostly ruled by Rome. It was a rivalry that could bring down the wrath of Rome and the Pharisees and Saducees were given the responsibility by Rome to keep the people peaceful and to put down any possible rival to Rome. Insurrections and "messiahs" were considered enemies of the state where Rome was concered and were punished by death.

So there was a decidedly political dimension that you simply cannot brush to the side. Jesus' theology was not why he was killed. Like I said, there were different kinds of pharisees and each one thought the others were morons and they fought and debated all the time. They did not kill each other over theology. Jesus' claims took on a political dimension that threatened to bring down the wrath of Rome.

[Guest yod]

You don't know anything about theologians or seminaries and are not in a position to make such unfair and ridiculous accusations.

And you should get out of Missouri once in a while.

America has a higher percentage of good seminaries, but America isn't the rest of the world either.

And no, you don't understand the OP. You have continuously been assigning a false value to the question she asked all through the this thread.

I think that I was the first person to admit that? I've said it a couple of times....so now let me add one more thing:

excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

The Pharisees were the theologians of their day that is true,

I rest my case.