What does The Bible say?

[Guest daretospeak]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

I hate it when new people come on board with this type of declaration. It shows they are more interested in their agenda than in fellowship with the Body. Le sigh.

My agenda is Truth...I'm sorry you hate that.

[Guest]

Your truth, not The Truth.

[Guest shiloh357]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

I hate it when new people come on board with this type of declaration. It shows they are more interested in their agenda than in fellowship with the Body. Le sigh.

My agenda is Truth...I'm sorry you hate that.

Your "agenda" is simply to regurgitate an old theological concept that has no basis in truth.

[OldShep]

What about 2 Cor 5:6-8?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I have Faith that when this body dies my soul will be present with the Lord in Heaven. My Faith this based on the above and:

Eph 2:8-10NIV For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— (9) not by works, so that no one can boast. (10) For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2Co 12:2-5NIV I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. (3) And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— (4) was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. (5) I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.

ICL Dennis

That's nice......but He didn't enter Heaven.

Are you sure? Have you ever stood on the doorstep of this life and Heaven? Have you ever been filled with the true power of total Joy, Love, Acceptance and Peace that is found in our Lord Jesus Christ? Have you ever experienced the inexpressible words of God?

I once thought I knew, yet, as I grow old I'm lead to understand that my understanding of things that are and things that are to be, is not driven by my understanding of how I want them to turn out. This body shall live but one life, a shell for the soul, a temporary house that will return to the dust that it came from.The soul will not be rejoined to a body that will again suffer death, for death it's self will be cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:14) The soul lives on. “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”(1Co_15:26). However, there will be a second death, but a “second death differs from the first, in the fact that it is not a separation of the soul and body, but a state of “continual agony” like what the first death inflicts - like that in intensity, but not in kind” (Prof. Stuart).

I wish you well daretospeak, may the Grace of God be upon you and yours. Live in Peace! You need not respond to the questions I wrote, for they weren't written for me. Good Bye!

ICL Dennis

[nebula]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

I hate it when new people come on board with this type of declaration. It shows they are more interested in their agenda than in fellowship with the Body. Le sigh.

My agenda is Truth...I'm sorry you hate that.

Heard that before time and time again, too.

You're doing a lot more self-promotion than God-promotion. I hope and pray one day you realize that and repent.

[JohnD]

The thing is, to properly interpret the scripture we must understand our own personal make up. Because the scriptures speak of when we die as a conscious changing of location (in Luke 19 both the rich man and Lazarus were conscious as were Abraham and all else there), the Bible also speaks of our not knowing anything and appearing to be asleep. It also mentions were return to the dust we came from. The only way all three can be correct is that when we die our spirits leave our bodies and go to be with the Lord (if we are believers) or to the waiting chamber in Hades / Sheol (where the rich man is still waiting in torment) if an unbeliever. This is with full conscious awareness. The body appears to be asleep and begins to decay immediately and knows nothing. The Bible also says in death we cease to exist.

Psalm 103:15-16 (NIV)

15 As for man, his days are like grass, he flourishes like a flower of the field;

16 the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more.

We are body soul and spirit. Some theologians (like CS Lewis) thought that being a soul is the combination of body and spirit. The argument is based on the Genesis 2 account. But it does not answer the question how part of us can be in heaven, part in the earth and part nonexistent. The only way to amalgamate the three (making all true) is that we are bodies and spirits with a buffer between the two realities (having traist of both) called the soul. When body and spirit part ways the soul ceases to exist. Kind of like the green in the example below:

[Isaiah 6:8]

How do you explain this?

Acts 7:55 New King James Version (NKJV)

55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

[glf]

My intention is not to bring confusion but to shed some light on a few passages of scripture.

First of all let us understand that 2 Peter 1:20 says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

I do not seek to have my words believed, I seek for you to believe the Word of God.

What I will bring to the forefront are various scriptures that say exactly what they say.

Let me also add this scripture, 2 Timothy 4:3-5, "3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

We are to guard the word of Truth passionately!

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

This scripture clearly states that, "no man hath ascended up to heaven". These are the words of Jesus.....and to teach that there are people in Heaven is calling Jesus a liar.

We can see in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that those who have "died" have fallen asleep.....Christians have fallen asleep in Christ, that is....In being one with Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The dead in Christ shall rise first........this clearly says that those who have "died" are not in Heaven yet!

How can anyone enter into Heaven before Judgment has taken place???

When Christ returns, The dead in Christ will rise first.....then those who remain.

Lets look at 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10, "9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

To believe anything other than what the bible says is believing a lie........do not love the lie.

Search for truth........ask for it! Don't believe what other men say........believe what Jesus says.

Discuss.

John 11:11-14 This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead,"

Hebrews chapter 11 tells us of those who have gone before us in faith and then, in Heb 12:1; "Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us."

They cannot be our witnesses, if they are asleep. And the encouragement to lay aside the sin that does so easily beset us is made poignant or is being emphasized because we are surrounded by those who have already fought the good fight of faith and have finished the race and will be waiting for us to join them one day.

[JohnD]

How do you explain this?

Acts 7:55 New King James Version (NKJV)

55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

To whom do you address this question? And I am not sure I understand exactly what you are asking. Sorry.

[Isaiah 6:8]

How do you explain this?

Acts 7:55 New King James Version (NKJV)

55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

To whom do you address this question? And I am not sure I understand exactly what you are asking. Sorry.

That was to Dare to speak. Who is now gone so at this time the point is moot.