Joel Olsteen

[Fez]

It's good to see all this opposition against him though, tells me the devil and his crowed are mad...... Just like the devil tried to get Paul over and over........

And that is the sort of statement any competent and Spirit driven pastor would remonstrate with you about. To allude that people who disagree with you on Worthy are on the side of the devil would be just wrong. Show me anyone on this thread who has come across as mad?

Please show me the scriptures that show satan was trying to get Paul "over and over?"

[~candice~]

Your responsibility, as is all our responsibility, if you are concerned, is to turn off the TV and pray for him, and even write a letter---not gossip and bad mouth the man and his ministry. He is a brother whether you like it or not. There is a whole lot of heresy on TV. I don't stand in judgment over them and decry their ministries in the public square---or in Christian forums. I just disregard them and heed my own leaders that God has placed into my life personally. I owe them my ear, and my prayer and my support.

It sure is not sarcastic to invite you to watch something you have yet to see in order to make an educated opinion. It is wise advice. It's rather silly to opine without ever seeing what you are talking about. If you have not watched him, then you are listening to gossip, and adding to it.

You and Love Songs are attempting to re-direct blame. There is no credible debate otherwise that Osteen preaches a watered-down gospel that is devoid of conviction when it comes to sin. He says himself that he will not talk about sin because it is a downer to do so. He won't come right out and say that Jesus is the only way to heaven when he claims to be a preacher charged to proclaim the truth boldly. You have the man's own words which speak for him, in this thread, as a witness, and yet you continue to say he doesn't do this and doesn't do that.

And yet, unwilling to simply admit that he has some areas of his ministry he needs to work on and get straightened out, according to the both of you, he isn't the problem. We are. When we state what the BIBLE quite clearly says on this issue, which is supposed to be the ultimate and final source and an end to the matter, we get accused of gossip, bad-mouthing, and judging. And we get accused of those things because we choose to tell the truth. And in no way have any of us here who said that Osteens message is lacking judged him, gossiped about him or bad-mouthed him. We have simply told the biblical truth about the issue.

I find it a ridiculous assertion that we should not speak out against false preachers because we will be accused of gossiping. I DO stand in judgement over theology, there is no way I would not assess a preachers theology and no way I would stay quiet about what I see as blatant heresy. I stand with Cobalt on this issue. Threads really shouldn't be closed because some people demand that speaking out about false theology is "gossip". Nor should they constantly be closed because some people take things personally that really shouldn't be taken personally... crying wolf is a good way of getting a thread closed but it isn't a good practice if we want to consistently share the TRUTH of the Word.

I am aware that having your theology challenged, or the theology of a favoured preacher, can be quite confronting. And when people are confronted, feeling like they are only a tiny few maintaining their stance against the majority, it can seem as if there have been personal insults when there haven't (perspective can get lost in the heat of the moment). But this is a forum in which most of us are brothers and sisters in the Lord, and we really need to be able to talk about errant theology without all of this baggage threatening thread closures all the time.

My two shillings, for what it is worth.

[~candice~]

I think what the unlearned fail to realize is that you can't preach in Error against God and stay around long. It just don't work that way.

Uh, really? There are plenty of cults around that have had long long standing leaders, spanning 50-60 years.

[Mark2005]

You and Love Songs are attempting to re-direct blame. There is no credible debate otherwise that Osteen preaches a watered-down gospel that is devoid of conviction when it comes to sin. He says himself that he will not talk about sin because it is a downer to do so. He won't come right out and say that Jesus is the only way to heaven when he claims to be a preacher charged to proclaim the truth boldly. You have the man's own words which speak for him, in this thread, as a witness, and yet you continue to say he doesn't do this and doesn't do that.

And yet, unwilling to simply admit that he has some areas of his ministry he needs to work on and get straightened out, according to the both of you, he isn't the problem. We are. When we state what the BIBLE quite clearly says on this issue, which is supposed to be the ultimate and final source and an end to the matter, we get accused of gossip, bad-mouthing, and judging. And we get accused of those things because we choose to tell the truth. And in no way have any of us here who said that Osteens message is lacking judged him, gossiped about him or bad-mouthed him. We have simply told the biblical truth about the issue.

Ok, fine. Maybe this is what people want, so that is what they buy. That was the case with me. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with the consequences. The hellfire and brimstone preachers didn't do it for me. I wasn't looking for eternity; I was looking to improve my life here and now. It has nothing to do with "repentance". (Not sure what I would be repenting of anyway.)

There are a lot of flavors on the spiritual menu out there and each of us has the freedom to decide what we wish to swallow.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Mark2005

[ayin jade]

Ok, fine. Maybe this is what people want, so that is what they buy. That was the case with me. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with the consequences. The hellfire and brimstone preachers didn't do it for me. I wasn't looking for eternity; I was looking to improve my life here and now. It has nothing to do with "repentance". (Not sure what I would be repenting of anyway.)

There are a lot of flavors on the spiritual menu out there and each of us has the freedom to decide what we wish to swallow.

If I may post this without anyone taking offense ....

Mark, what good has his preaching done you? You are here on these forums in a state of indecisiveness about the Lord. The word of God has not taken root in you. While you post words in osteens defense, your life bears witness against his preaching.

You are an example of why so many of us care that osteen preaches a watered down message at best.

[Fez]

Ok, fine. Maybe this is what people want, so that is what they buy. That was the case with me. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with the consequences. The hellfire and brimstone preachers didn't do it for me. I wasn't looking for eternity; I was looking to improve my life here and now. It has nothing to do with "repentance". (Not sure what I would be repenting of anyway.)

There are a lot of flavors on the spiritual menu out there and each of us has the freedom to decide what we wish to swallow.

If I may post this without anyone taking offense ....

Mark, what good has his preaching done you? You are here on these forums in a state of indecisiveness about the Lord. The word of God has not taken root in you. While you post words in osteens defense, your life bears witness against his preaching.

You are an example of why so many of us care that osteen preaches a watered down message at best.

And also without judgment, because I simply don't know, it goes toward my post on this thread about a pale shadow of scripture vs the truth that needs to be heard.

Mark if you hear pure scripture and not the watered down version, perhaps you would know more about the repentance you are unsure of?

Stick around here Mark, there are some hard truths discussed, and by people who know their stuff and do not judge.

Blessings

[Guest shiloh357]

Excuse me !...... Now you are personally attacking me and wrongly judging me ... as a born again Christian...a child of God.

YOU are way off topic ... the topic is about the finger... that you are pointing at and backbitting , Joel Olsteen ...Gods' servant as a Preacher !

You people need to get off of your negativity about this man, and the way he preaches.

This is my opinion of Joel Olsteens Ministry.

I am not in here to attack people ...no matter who they are. That would not be Christ like of me to do so.

Sevenseas...........Name calling is Not Christian of you.

O.K. ...I do have a few verses for you....at my signature of every post that I write... are verses that are positive !

Plus ..! I have one more to add... another positive from God Himself , which is ..Positive... so you cannot say that ...what I am saying is not ...biblical.

Proverbs 4 : 20-21-22

20- My son, give attention to my words;

Incline your ear to my sayings.

21-Do not let them depart from your eyes;

Keep them in the midst of your heart;

22- For they are life to those who find them ,

And health to ALL their flesh.

Gods' word is health and healing to ALL of your flesh.... now that is a positive verse !

The book of John...1:1-2

1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2- He was in the beginning with God.

Oh , in the book of Revelations....19 : 13

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called

The Word of God.

Jesus is the Word of God ! That is a positive verse !!!

LOVE SONGS,

We are not opposed to postive, encouraging preaching. That is not the issue.

The issue is that Olsteen inordinately focuses ONLY on what appeals to people's desire to wealthy and live comfortably and to be successful in how the world defines success. Joel was able to achieve what he achieved because he already had a lot of money and a major family ministry to begin with. He did not build his ministry from scratch. He has his dad's name, and even looks and sounds like his dad. He had a lot going for him at the beginning. He had connections to people of influence and affluence that most regular people don't have. There is nothing wrong with being rich. But, riches, power, success are not the goal and should not be the barometer by how we judge our Christian lives. Joel uses his ministry has an example of what can happen when you doggedly follow after your dream. The problem is that his representation of that leaves out the important details of what he had going for him before he started his "dream."

The problem is that nothing in what Joel preaches prepares anyone for the realities of life. Joel is not a pastor in the truest sense. He simply gets on stage and delivers a message. I can bet that if one of his members is facing major life-threatening surgery, you would not find him there at the hospital praying with the family members, much less sitting with them until their loved one comes out of surgery. As a pastor, he is untouchable. He is the antithesis of what a pastor should be.

It isn't the postive qualities that many of us find objectionable. It is the constant appeal to the flesh, as if pesonal dreams and goals are what you should be chasing after. Jesus said that we should seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousnes. God meets our needs as we put His Kingdom first. But that doesn't sell books or build a family empire.

You can realize your personal dreams and goals and still never be fulfilled. Our success in this world from a biblical perspective is not linked to how much of a "champion" we were in the worldly sense that Olsteen presents. It is linked to our active participation in building the Kingdom of God.

[Guest]

Ok, fine. Maybe this is what people want, so that is what they buy. That was the case with me. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with the consequences. The hellfire and brimstone preachers didn't do it for me. I wasn't looking for eternity; I was looking to improve my life here and now. It has nothing to do with "repentance". (Not sure what I would be repenting of anyway.)

There are a lot of flavors on the spiritual menu out there and each of us has the freedom to decide what we wish to swallow....

Dear One The Truth Of The Matter Is

Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:

Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain. Proverbs 30:7-9

Not Even A Ten Ton Truckload Of Gold

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them. Psalms 135:15-18

Will Float Your Boat

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:24-27

[Guest Ocelot]

Mat 26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak."

Also

1 Timothy 6:9 "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts,

which drown men in destruction and perdition."

I for one don't want to be rich. It's hard enough to not to be conformed to this world. Its tough to stay focused on

the Word of God sometimes. If I was rich it would be that much harder.

Pro 30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

Pro 30:9 Lest I be full, and deny [thee], and say, Who [is] the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name

of my God [in vain].

[Guest shiloh357]

You and Love Songs are attempting to re-direct blame. There is no credible debate otherwise that Osteen preaches a watered-down gospel that is devoid of conviction when it comes to sin. He says himself that he will not talk about sin because it is a downer to do so. He won't come right out and say that Jesus is the only way to heaven when he claims to be a preacher charged to proclaim the truth boldly. You have the man's own words which speak for him, in this thread, as a witness, and yet you continue to say he doesn't do this and doesn't do that.

And yet, unwilling to simply admit that he has some areas of his ministry he needs to work on and get straightened out, according to the both of you, he isn't the problem. We are. When we state what the BIBLE quite clearly says on this issue, which is supposed to be the ultimate and final source and an end to the matter, we get accused of gossip, bad-mouthing, and judging. And we get accused of those things because we choose to tell the truth. And in no way have any of us here who said that Osteens message is lacking judged him, gossiped about him or bad-mouthed him. We have simply told the biblical truth about the issue.

Ok, fine. Maybe this is what people want, so that is what they buy. That was the case with me. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with the consequences. The hellfire and brimstone preachers didn't do it for me. I wasn't looking for eternity; I was looking to improve my life here and now. It has nothing to do with "repentance". (Not sure what I would be repenting of anyway.)

There are a lot of flavors on the spiritual menu out there and each of us has the freedom to decide what we wish to swallow.

Yes, but you dont' have the freedom to choose the consequences. Your post illustrates exactly what the problem is. Joel doesn't give you a reason for repentance. We repent of sin. But you don't see a need for that. Your focus is not on where you will spend eternity, but on how you can have it good in the here and now. Jesus died precisely because of what will happen to you in eternity if you die unrepentant and lost in your sin. Jesus didn't go to the cross so you could be a champion and drive a BMW and live in pentouse suite. He died to redeem from the curse of death that is hanging over your head.

Jesus asked, "what does it profit a man if he gains the world but loses his soul? You can grab the world by the tail and have it all in this life, but if you die in your sin, you lose eternal life. Life is like a vapor It is here today and gone tomorrow. You don't know how long you have to live on this earth. Life is real uncertain and you can't trust that you will live to a ripe old age. Many don't. You need salvation. You need Christ. You don't need to be rich or to be a "champion."

All of the success and wealth that Joel Olsteen speaks of will not bring fulfillment. It certainly doesn't win any points with God. If you listen to Joel, all you need to do is follow your dreams and follow your heart. He is singing a lot of people to sleep with a false Gospel.