He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 Exactly. In fact, if the argument that Jesus was sinless because Mary was sinless, then Mary had to have a sinless mother as well, meaning that her mother had to have a sinless mother going back in an endless succession of immaculate conceptions. The sin nature is passed through the father. Jesus had no earthly father, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That is what made Him sinless; He was/is fully God and fully man. Exactly! I woke up this morning and I have been impressed twice in this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 There is no basis whatsoever for saying that the sin nature is passed through the father. Both Adam and Eve sinned as has every other person except Christ since day one. Women sin as much as men. I would lighten you stance on this one because you are wrong! We are not talking about sin as an act, we are talking about sin as to what is inside a person, it is who they are not what they do. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. Adam and Eve both eat of the forbidden fruit yet the Bible says that "by man came death. I hope that someone else can expound my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Scripture does not say she was sinless nor that she never was a sinner. Scripture makes it clear that no one does good nor seek God. If you say that Mary was obedient then I would say yes because that lines up with Scripture that she obeyed the Lord and allowed herself to be used as a vessel to bear the Messiah who would be the Savior. Exactly. In fact, if the argument that Jesus was sinless because Mary was sinless, then Mary had to have a sinless mother as well, meaning that her mother had to have a sinless mother going back in an endless succession of emaculate conceptions. The sin nature is passed through the father. Jesus had no earthly father, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That is what made Him sinless; He was/is fully God and fully man. There is no basis whatsoever for saying that the sin nature is passed through the father. Both Adam and Eve sinned as has every other person except Christ since day one. Women sin as much as men. Yes there is every basis saying the sin nature passes through the father. The Bible says that sin passed through Adam. Adam sinned with both eyes open and the Bible lays the blame squarely and solely upon Adam. The Bible NEVER places the blame on Eve at all. The fall did not occur until after ADAM sinned. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. (1Co 15:21-22) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 5:12-21) Jesus did not inherit a sin nature through Mary because the sin nature is inherited through Adam, and Jesus did not have a biological father. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. If the sin nature passed through both mother and father, Jesus would have inherited sin through Mary and as such it would have disqualified Him from being our Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Scripture does not say she was sinless nor that she never was a sinner. Scripture makes it clear that no one does good nor seek God. If you say that Mary was obedient then I would say yes because that lines up with Scripture that she obeyed the Lord and allowed herself to be used as a vessel to bear the Messiah who would be the Savior. Exactly. In fact, if the argument that Jesus was sinless because Mary was sinless, then Mary had to have a sinless mother as well, meaning that her mother had to have a sinless mother going back in an endless succession of emaculate conceptions. The sin nature is passed through the father. Jesus had no earthly father, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That is what made Him sinless; He was/is fully God and fully man. There is no basis whatsoever for saying that the sin nature is passed through the father. Both Adam and Eve sinned as has every other person except Christ since day one. Women sin as much as men. Yes there is every basis saying the sin nature passes through the father. The Bible says that sin passed through Adam. Adam sinned with both eyes open and the Bible lays the blame squarely and solely upon Adam. The Bible NEVER places the blame on Eve at all. The fall did not occur until after ADAM sinned. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. (1Co 15:21-22) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 5:12-21) Jesus did not inherit a sin nature through Mary because the sin nature is inherited through Adam, and Jesus did not have a biological father. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. If the sin nature passed through both mother and father, Jesus would have inherited sin through Mary and as such it would have disqualified Him from being our Savior. Well said . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajunluvie Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 Scripture does not say she was sinless nor that she never was a sinner. Scripture makes it clear that no one does good nor seek God. If you say that Mary was obedient then I would say yes because that lines up with Scripture that she obeyed the Lord and allowed herself to be used as a vessel to bear the Messiah who would be the Savior. Exactly. In fact, if the argument that Jesus was sinless because Mary was sinless, then Mary had to have a sinless mother as well, meaning that her mother had to have a sinless mother going back in an endless succession of emaculate conceptions. The sin nature is passed through the father. Jesus had no earthly father, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That is what made Him sinless; He was/is fully God and fully man. So you think only the fathers pass down sin nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yes there is every basis saying the sin nature passes through the father. The Bible says that sin passed through Adam. Adam sinned with both eyes open and the Bible lays the blame squarely and solely upon Adam. The Bible NEVER places the blame on Eve at all. The fall did not occur until after ADAM sinned. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. (1Co 15:21-22) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 5:12-21) Jesus did not inherit a sin nature through Mary because the sin nature is inherited through Adam, and Jesus did not have a biological father. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. If the sin nature passed through both mother and father, Jesus would have inherited sin through Mary and as such it would have disqualified Him from being our Savior. Will you ever since to impress me. Off topic, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 I recently stumbled on to this question and people have different opinions on this subject. Was the Virgin Mary sinless or not? Some of the answers I have heard range from a Catholic view to what is in the Bible. Any thoughts here? I think a lot of good has come from this thread, thanks for starting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 14, 2011 So you think only the fathers pass down sin nature? Well, until we see a person born without a father's seed, we'll never be able to test the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 So you think only the fathers pass down sin nature? Well, until we see a person born without a father's seed, we'll never be able to test the theory. nebula, it has been proven in Christ, no earthly Father, no sin. God has made man the head and lord of the earth. What happened after Eve ate the forbidden fruit -- nothing. It wasn't until Adam ate that they knew they were naked then they hid from God. Adam broke the covenant with God, not Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 Mary could not be sinless as she was not divine. She was in the same boat as the rest of us......only Jesus Himself walked the earth in that perfect state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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