Is there a need to know our Jewish roots for prophecy?

[Guest]

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent. Zephaniah 3:9

[mizzdy]

Shalom, mizzdy.

As such, then, the purpose for the Rapture is that it is a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, so to speak, to get all of His elect to His location quickly, that location being in the air above Yisra'el and the Middle East before He makes His final descent.

Do you see how the purpose for the Rapture helps to define WHEN the Rapture will be? It's not to "take us to Heaven"; it's to take us "THROUGH the heavens (the skies)" to where Yeshua` will be in the air just before He lands! Therefore, it will happen JUST BEFORE HE LANDS DURING HIS SECOND COMING!

As far as not having to learn Hebrew, perhaps you're right, but when you consider that the Messiah's Kingdom when He becomes haMelekh Yisra'el as His Kingdom will be growing throughout the next 1000 years until He is Melekh haM'lakhiym (King of kings or Emperor of the World), and the following admission by Rav Sha'uwl (Paul):

Acts 26:13-14

13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

KJV

I'd be willing to bet that the "lingua franca" of the Millennium will be or will become Hebrew. You can either learn it now and enjoy learning more about the Tanakh, or you can learn it later. Your choice. I've chosen to learn it now.

Never being one to think that anyone was going to 'heaven' when He comes I can agree with you, we are gather by the angels, taken to be with Him forevermore, and where that is is where He says He will go when He returns, His feet will touch down on the Mt. of Olives. I do lean towards the very idea that we all will be speaking Hebrew when He returns. As for learning it now I know a bit here and there, but languages were not by strong suit besides when He imprints all His ways upon my heart I bet He could also put whatever language He wants within me also. I do know a few scholars I rely on heavily when I need help as well as many others I know who are fluent.

shalom,

Mizz

[ENOCH2010]

Shalom, mizzdy.

I think if someone wants to really dig into scriptures, understand the meanings in so many phrases and such we need to understand where they came from what they mean, context, content and culture are extremely important. The simple message of scripture is just that a simple message, God loves you, He sent His Son as the payment for the penalty of our sins, we are to walk in His ways and love should be at the core of every single thing we do.

I also think its important to know where the things one holds dear comes from, no one has to learn Hebrew or Greek, we have great study tools for that. I find many who are willing to dig and dig for their own family roots so personally I find it odd that no one wants to find nor see the true roots of ones faith. Christianity didn't start out the way it is today, it is fully Hebraic in meanings and understanding, translating that into modern day anything is hard enough without the basic underlining message. And I do admit to being a bit on the bias side, I am what most call Messianic, some label me with the hebrew roots logo also, I see the Hebraic roots to scriptures, find that understandings of the things most call 'Jewish' are increasingly necessary to understand prophecy, not always a popular position. God says He declares all things from the beginning, that He does not do a thing without telling His prophets and we have all that written down so understanding their mindset, the mindset which the scriptures were written as being very important. Thats my opinions on the matter.

shalom,

Mizz

Thank you for your opinion. As a Messianic believer then, you understand that the Lord's Supper or the Eucharist is from the Pesach Seder and that baptism comes from purification in the mikvah; however, even when Christian believers acquire this information, they will often have a disjoint understanding without the underlying link "why!" Without understanding the purpose for a thing, the thing is just some meaningless ritual or liturgy that has no basis in reality!

I've been learning (an unending process) that the purpose for any event in prophecy is KEY to understanding that event. For instance, consider the "Rapture":

There WILL be a Rapture (Greek: "harpageesometha," from "harpazoo," meaning "shall be snatched away") as we see in 1 Thess. 4:17, but what is the PURPOSE for such an event? Most Christians who believe in a Rapture have not bothered to define its purpose or to put it in so many words, but they FEEL that its purpose is to take them away to "Heaven" safely and escape the Wrath of God poured out on the inhabitants of the earth. However, such escapism is NEVER taught in the Scriptures! Instead, the promises are...

2 Tim. 3:8-12

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

KJV

and...

2 Cor. 1:3-7

3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

KJV

Thus, suffering and tribulation are not to be AVOIDED AND FEARED by believers but EMBRACED WITH COURAGE AND JOY as chances to share in the suffering of our Lord and those who have gone before us in the faith, looking forward in anticipation for the CONSOLATION AND RESCUE!

Knowing, then, that the purpose for a Rapture is not to be found in escapism, what IS its purpose? Why will there be a Rapture? Well, if we go back to the verses that suggest a Rapture, we read this:

1 Thess. 4:13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

KJV

I believe that the purpose for the Rapture is simply "to meet the Lord in the air" and to remain "with the Lord" from then on. The passage, however, does NOT say where we will go from there! That's important to see, because many READ INTO this passage of Scripture WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, instead of accepting what it says.

The next question to ask oneself is, "WHEN will this occur?" The answer lies in a few key phrases, such as "the coming of the Lord" and "in the clouds."

The "coming of the Lord" is not just an arrival or a return; it is the Greek word "parousia" meaning the "being-near" of the Lord (or Master). This is the SAME WORD used in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, and 39, as well as 2 Thess. 2:1-10 and 2 Peter 3:4 and 12, all of which are recognized as that event called the "Second Coming." And while some have suggested that the event is really a sequence of two events separated by 7 years, that's not how these verses are worded nor would they like them so interpreted. However, recognizing that they ARE passages with the same word, and that Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all associate this event with the "clouds" at His coming, I see them as describing the EXACT SAME EVENT! Indeed, if we also add in the information given by the two witnesses in white at the Lord's ascension (Acts 1:9-11), the "clouds" being associated with His return are reinforced.

Therefore, the purpose of the Rapture, I conclude, will be the same as the purpose of Yeshua` sending forth His messengers ("aggeloi" transliterated "angels") at His coming: To gather His elect to Him":

Matt. 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

KJV

Mark 13:24-27

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

KJV

As such, then, the purpose for the Rapture is that it is a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, so to speak, to get all of His elect to His location quickly, that location being in the air above Yisra'el and the Middle East before He makes His final descent.

Do you see how the purpose for the Rapture helps to define WHEN the Rapture will be? It's not to "take us to Heaven"; it's to take us "THROUGH the heavens (the skies)" to where Yeshua` will be in the air just before He lands! Therefore, it will happen JUST BEFORE HE LANDS DURING HIS SECOND COMING!

As far as not having to learn Hebrew, perhaps you're right, but when you consider that the Messiah's Kingdom when He becomes haMelekh Yisra'el as His Kingdom will be growing throughout the next 1000 years until He is Melekh haM'lakhiym (King of kings or Emperor of the World), and the following admission by Rav Sha'uwl (Paul):

Acts 26:13-14

13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

KJV

I'd be willing to bet that the "lingua franca" of the Millennium will be or will become Hebrew. You can either learn it now and enjoy learning more about the Tanakh, or you can learn it later. Your choice. I've chosen to learn it now.

Very well put Roy,I'm not a Messianic Jew yet,but I hope to be when the Lord comes back

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, my brother ENOCH2010 (Chanokh2010).

Shalom, mizzdy.

I think if someone wants to really dig into scriptures, understand the meanings in so many phrases and such we need to understand where they came from what they mean, context, content and culture are extremely important. The simple message of scripture is just that a simple message, God loves you, He sent His Son as the payment for the penalty of our sins, we are to walk in His ways and love should be at the core of every single thing we do.

I also think its important to know where the things one holds dear comes from, no one has to learn Hebrew or Greek, we have great study tools for that. I find many who are willing to dig and dig for their own family roots so personally I find it odd that no one wants to find nor see the true roots of ones faith. Christianity didn't start out the way it is today, it is fully Hebraic in meanings and understanding, translating that into modern day anything is hard enough without the basic underlining message. And I do admit to being a bit on the bias side, I am what most call Messianic, some label me with the hebrew roots logo also, I see the Hebraic roots to scriptures, find that understandings of the things most call 'Jewish' are increasingly necessary to understand prophecy, not always a popular position. God says He declares all things from the beginning, that He does not do a thing without telling His prophets and we have all that written down so understanding their mindset, the mindset which the scriptures were written as being very important. Thats my opinions on the matter.

shalom,

Mizz

Thank you for your opinion. As a Messianic believer then, you understand that the Lord's Supper or the Eucharist is from the Pesach Seder and that baptism comes from purification in the mikvah; however, even when Christian believers acquire this information, they will often have a disjoint understanding without the underlying link "why!" Without understanding the purpose for a thing, the thing is just some meaningless ritual or liturgy that has no basis in reality!

I've been learning (an unending process) that the purpose for any event in prophecy is KEY to understanding that event. For instance, consider the "Rapture":

There WILL be a Rapture (Greek: "harpageesometha," from "harpazoo," meaning "shall be snatched away") as we see in 1 Thess. 4:17, but what is the PURPOSE for such an event? Most Christians who believe in a Rapture have not bothered to define its purpose or to put it in so many words, but they FEEL that its purpose is to take them away to "Heaven" safely and escape the Wrath of God poured out on the inhabitants of the earth. However, such escapism is NEVER taught in the Scriptures! Instead, the promises are...

2 Tim. 3:8-12

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

KJV

and...

2 Cor. 1:3-7

3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

KJV

Thus, suffering and tribulation are not to be AVOIDED AND FEARED by believers but EMBRACED WITH COURAGE AND JOY as chances to share in the suffering of our Lord and those who have gone before us in the faith, looking forward in anticipation for the CONSOLATION AND RESCUE!

Knowing, then, that the purpose for a Rapture is not to be found in escapism, what IS its purpose? Why will there be a Rapture? Well, if we go back to the verses that suggest a Rapture, we read this:

1 Thess. 4:13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

KJV

I believe that the purpose for the Rapture is simply "to meet the Lord in the air" and to remain "with the Lord" from then on. The passage, however, does NOT say where we will go from there! That's important to see, because many READ INTO this passage of Scripture WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, instead of accepting what it says.

The next question to ask oneself is, "WHEN will this occur?" The answer lies in a few key phrases, such as "the coming of the Lord" and "in the clouds."

The "coming of the Lord" is not just an arrival or a return; it is the Greek word "parousia" meaning the "being-near" of the Lord (or Master). This is the SAME WORD used in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, and 39, as well as 2 Thess. 2:1-10 and 2 Peter 3:4 and 12, all of which are recognized as that event called the "Second Coming." And while some have suggested that the event is really a sequence of two events separated by 7 years, that's not how these verses are worded nor would they like them so interpreted. However, recognizing that they ARE passages with the same word, and that Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all associate this event with the "clouds" at His coming, I see them as describing the EXACT SAME EVENT! Indeed, if we also add in the information given by the two witnesses in white at the Lord's ascension (Acts 1:9-11), the "clouds" being associated with His return are reinforced.

Therefore, the purpose of the Rapture, I conclude, will be the same as the purpose of Yeshua` sending forth His messengers ("aggeloi" transliterated "angels") at His coming: To gather His elect to Him":

Matt. 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

KJV

Mark 13:24-27

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

KJV

As such, then, the purpose for the Rapture is that it is a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, so to speak, to get all of His elect to His location quickly, that location being in the air above Yisra'el and the Middle East before He makes His final descent.

Do you see how the purpose for the Rapture helps to define WHEN the Rapture will be? It's not to "take us to Heaven"; it's to take us "THROUGH the heavens (the skies)" to where Yeshua` will be in the air just before He lands! Therefore, it will happen JUST BEFORE HE LANDS DURING HIS SECOND COMING!

As far as not having to learn Hebrew, perhaps you're right, but when you consider that the Messiah's Kingdom when He becomes haMelekh Yisra'el as His Kingdom will be growing throughout the next 1000 years until He is Melekh haM'lakhiym (King of kings or Emperor of the World), and the following admission by Rav Sha'uwl (Paul):

Acts 26:13-14

13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

KJV

I'd be willing to bet that the "lingua franca" of the Millennium will be or will become Hebrew. You can either learn it now and enjoy learning more about the Tanakh, or you can learn it later. Your choice. I've chosen to learn it now.

Very well put Roy,I'm not a Messianic Jew yet,but I hope to be when the Lord comes back

You ARE "born again," are you not? (John 3)

Aren't you "justified by God" and "reconciled" to Him? (Isa. 45:22-25; 2 Cor. 5)

If so (and I believe that's true), then you ARE grafted into Yeshua`s Kingdom of Yisra'el; you ARE ALREADY a "Messianic Jew" - maybe not by birth, but certainly by NEW BIRTH! You are ONE with the Messiah and one with the Father through Him! YHVH calls you His SON!

You ARE included; you ARE "accepted in the Beloved!"

[ENOCH2010]

That is all true Roy,and when I hear the King of Kings repeat those statements,have you any idea how big of a smile I'm going to have on my face.