Understanding Job?

[nebula]

This may be out of order in the discussion, but I think that the lesson of Job - or at least a lesson - is one of mindset.

The mindset was that God blessed Job because Job was good.

When trouble came, the mindset was, "Job must have sinned!"

At first, Job held fast to his faith and trust in the Lord. As the accusations (in love mind you ) that he had sinned, he started to defend his case that he had not. As the pressure built, he began to direct his case towards the Lord - as if he could take the Lord to court and charge him of injustice!

That's when, as I read it, Elihu challenged Job's words that he could speak in authority over the Lord.

(Note again, the question of "why suffering" never came up. And Elihu, I don't see, charged Job with sin before the suffering like the others, but rather rebuking him for his "taking God to trial" and believing he was justified in doing so.)

That's when the heavens open and the Lord speaks to Job - (paraphrase) "Who are you to challenge Me?"

Job repents. The Lord restores him.

So the message?

The Lord did not bless Job because Job was good;

The Lord blessed Job because the Lord is good!

[Guest idied2]

whats new about that? God left Adam alone with Eve and satan in the Garden of Eden to be tested didn't he?

You have just missunderstood what I was saying. Even Abraham's loyalty was tested by the LORD. when he was told to offer his son Isaac. Insignifying that you should Love no one more than HIM. But with Job introduced the understanding that the LORD might require you to suffer for HIM. And with CHRIST introduced the understanding that the LORD might require you to die for HIM.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[tsth]

I apologize for not getting back to this topic. My time here has become limited due to ministry right now. I just wanted to post one issue regarding Job, in case it goes off the page, and is no longer discussed.

I wanted to address what I believe to be the cruxt of the issue.

1. God uses His Holy Spirit to compel men to speak His Truth/vessels in His

Hand. (Elihu)

2. The church can become hardened and misguided. (See Job's Friends)

3. No matter how "churched/godly" someone appears to be, or even "is",

one is NEVER, EVER BEYOND OR ABOVE REPENTANCE, because if so,

they will cease to be in good standing with the Lord. (Job Repented,

even though he appeared to be above reproach.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Pride is the crossroads of the issue of man. Why do you think that the description of the Leviathan is as it is in Job 41? If a man desires to dwell in pride, then he is given to the goliath of pride to contend with............is that not what Satan is? If you choose to dwell in the realm of that mindset, you will be given over to one who will contend with you and slay you every time! You cannot master over Satan in this issue. You cannot master over the Lord God either. So Who do you choose to contend with?

Job 41

11 Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine. 12 "I will not conceal his limbs, His mighty power, or his graceful proportions. 13 Who can remove his outer coat? Who can approach him with a double bridle? 14 Who can open the doors of his face, With his terrible teeth all around? 15 His rows of scales are his pride, Shut up tightly as with a seal; 16 One is so near another That no air can come between them; 17 They are joined one to another, They stick together and cannot be parted. 18 His sneezings flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. 19 Out of his mouth go burning lights; Sparks of fire shoot out. 20 Smoke goes out of his nostrils, As from a boiling pot and burning rushes. 21 His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes out of his mouth. 22 Strength dwells in his neck, And sorrow dances before him. 23 The folds of his flesh are joined together; They are firm on him and cannot be moved. 24 His heart is as hard as stone, Even as hard as the lower millstone. 25 When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid; Because of his crashings they are beside F64 themselves. 26 Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; Nor does spear, dart, or javelin. 27 He regards iron as straw, And bronze as rotten wood. 28 The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones become like stubble to him. 29 Darts are regarded as straw; He laughs at the threat of javelins. 30 His undersides are like sharp potsherds; He spreads pointed marks in the mire. 31 He makes the deep boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a pot of ointment. 32 He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think the deep had white hair. 33 On earth there is nothing like him, Which is made without fear. 34 He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride."

Pride will always be the BAD card to hold. Get rid of it.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[sachi]

Thankyou Suzanne for this powerful study on Job. I have been following it for a few days now-

It speaks to some very vulnerable places of my life and heart.

And so its a tender place for me -

However, I am thankful to the Lord for guiding me to this particular study - (as well as to two other studies on this board) -

Somehow when we think we have hit dead end - He gently redirects and opens a new perspective to His Heart.

In response to todays Word , I wanted to share one reflection that stirred in me as I was reading this powerful passage with the rich imagery of Our Gods invincibility and might.

It is something I am being led to move within - and its the Word in Isaiah 57:15:

"I live in a high and holy place

but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit

to revive the spirit of the lowly

and to revive the heart of the contrite

I will not accuse forever . ..

May you be blessed -

Edited October 6, 2004 by sachi

[sachi]

I had time , so I re-read Job 40 and 41 and slowly as I was re reading the passages spoke to me in another way - or a deeper way

The 'monstors' of our life - represented as the behemoth, the leviathan, and the crocodile - are indeed insurmoutable , impenetrable-

Only with God's help can we 'stand' against these fierce monstors that challenge us -

Their strength and fierceness actually provide a contrast or foil for God's immeasurable greatness, power and invincibility

The starting place for us - or for me, at least - is in the words Job answered to the Lord: "I am unworthy - how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth"

Thanks again Suzanne. It's been a blessed experience -

[tsth]

I am always considering it a blessing to be used as a vessel in the service of the Master, there is no greater joy. Thank you sachi!

:hug:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[sachi]

tsth

Well this evening I had to drive my husband to the opthmolagist ,and waiting for him I read through those chapters 40 & 41 again, for the 3rd time, as slowly as I could , trying to answer the question why would God answer Job by referring to these monsters and their inexorable strength . . .

There were so many other ways God could have declared His majesty, power, genius, . . .

I still wonder -

Maybe because they are 'real', concrete manifestations of something Job or we can not even hope to win against - -

It brings home our impotence in that respect- our utter dependance on God -

I don't know- it is just a thought -

-

[tsth]

Dear sachi,

I would refer you back to the post I posted above on Chapter 41. It is God revealing the mysteries of men and pride. If you think back, Job and his buddies, were pretty sure about their standings with the Lord. Most of the focus was on their standings in the community/church. I think the difference was, Job really DID do the things that were pleasing to the Lord, I don't think his friends were as righteous as they thought. Elihu in one statement says he is keeping "bad" company. Even so, it was the beginnings of the manifestation of pride for Job. He was so sure about his standing before the Lord, but thankfully, he NEVER got to the point that he thought he was equal to or above God........i.e. - repentence, was still the right response for Job, and he still "knew" it. Many times, pride will bring men to a mindset of being past "repentance" therefore placing himself above the authority of God. The point of Job, I believe, is that no matter how good you believe your standing is before the Lord, you are NEVER beyond His Authority, and beyond His chastening. To heed the Lord's discipline/affliction is needful for man, to bring him to understanding, lest the Lord allow you to tangle with the Leviathian/the Master of Pride/Satan.............and that you will never forget! And if you listen to what the Lord says in 41, you would realize only HE is the one able to master over that monster, so do not ever think that you are mighty enough to do the same. Pride is hefty, but the Lord is greater!!!

Job 41:1 "Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook, Or snare his tongue with a line which you lower? 2 Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook? 3 Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? 4 Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? 5 Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens? 6 Will your companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? 7 Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? 8 Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle-- Never do it again! 9 Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him? 10 No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me?

We must always remember WHO is our Creator and Master, and should we begin to forget, we might be dealing with the Leviathan, who is too big for us.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Well, how timely. My Blackaby Devotion today just happened to be on "Job". I thought I'd share it:

QUESTIONING GOD

10/7/2004

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me."

-- JOB 38:1-3

Job was a righteous man who, from a human perspective, did not deserve to suffer. He lived a blameless life and followed God's laws to the letter. As he was experiencing great tribulation, Job cried out in frustra-tion and questioned why God was allowing him to suffer. God came to Job in the form of a whirlwind with His answer. As soon as God spoke, Job recognized that he should not have challenged God's wisdom. God turned to Job and asked him several sobering questions: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Where were you when I set the oceans in their place? Where were you when I put the constellations of stars in position?" God's questions humbled Job and reminded him that his own wisdom did not begin to compare with God's. When God finished asking His questions, Job replied, "I have uttered what I did not understand, / Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know" (Job 42:3). In a moment of despair and frustration, Job had challenged God's wisdom. God had firmly reminded Job that He was still sovereign and that this truth was enough for Job. Whether Job ever knew that his life had been the focus of a cosmic struggle is unclear. Perhaps Job never realized that his experience brought glory to God in the face of Satan's challenge (Job 1:8-12). But Job was satisfied to know that God's wisdom was flawless. At times you may not understand why a loving Father would allow you to suffer as you are. You may question the wisdom of God's direction for your life. Learn from Job. Review the awesome power and wisdom of almighty God (Job 38-41). Have confidence that this same God is directing your path.

In His Love,

Suzanne