Who's on the 12 Foundations

[Zemke]

Shalom, OneLight.

Shalom, just_fish.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" Rev 21:14 KJV

I heard this read the other day and it struck me -----

--- what names do you think are on the foundations? 11 are easy, but the 12th is the question. What do you think?

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Job 5:17

As a Messianic Jew, who it is makes little difference, IMO. You see, the twelve gates of the city were named for the twelve tribes of Isra'el. Thus, the twelve foundations, being named for the twelve "apostoloi" or the twelve ones sent or commissioned by the Adon Yeshua`, haMashiach Elohiym, are simply being named - being identified - so that one can find his way around in the huge, 1500-mile by 1500-mile by 1500-mile City! Again, I believe that the twelve foundations of the city Yerushalayim haChadashah are foundational LEVELS for a city that is 1500 miles high (based on a 660-foot "stadium" in Latin or "stadios" in Greek)! I believe that the first foundational level will be sunk into the new earth's crust when it lands after the Fire that Kefa (Peter) talks about in 2 Peter 3:7-12.

The twelve tribes around a city such as Yerushalayim haChadashah divide the city into twelve wedges, each wedge centered upon one gate. Thus, each wedge is named for the gate upon which it is centered. There will be an east-southeast gate, an east gate, an east-northeast gate, a north-northeast gate, a north gate, a north-northwest gate, a west-northwest gate, a west gate, a west-southwest gate, a south-southwest gate, a south gate, and a south-southeast gate, and the orders of these gates, I believe, can be found in Ezekiel 48:

Ezekiel 48:31-35

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

KJV

To get a feel for their REAL Hebrew names, one may consult the Complete Jewish Bible or simply look them up in a good concordance with a Hebrew dictionary:

Ezek 48:30-35

30-34 “‘These are the city exits; they are to be named after the tribes of Isra’el, three gates on each of the four sides; the four sides each measure just under one-and-a-half [miles]: on the north, gates named after Re’uven, Y’hudahand Levi; on the east, gates named after Yosef, Binyamin and Dan; on the south, gates named after Shim‘on, Yissakhar and Z’vulun; and on the west, gates named after Gad, Asher and Naftali.

35 “‘The perimeter of [the city] will be just under six [miles] long. And from that day on, the name of the city will be ADONAI Shamah [ADONAI is there].’”

CJB

This is NOT the same city as in Revelation 21 and 22, but is the city that will be the Jerusalem of the Millennium, called "YaHuWH-shameh" instead of "Yerushalayim," which is a slight play on words. This city, as can be seen in verse 35, is significantly smaller in size than the city in Revelation 21 and 22 though larger than the Old City.

One can see that these go around the city in a counterclockwise direction on a map, starting on the east side with the east-southeast gate named after Re`uven. In fact, the center gates on each side of the city will be named "Y'hudah," "Binyamin," "Yissakhar," and "Asher." (East to the traditional Jewish way of thinking would have been "up" or on the top of a map.)

But he does have an honest question.

Revelation 21:14

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This will be in the New Jerusalem and we know the eleven, and Candice offered the twelfth. Do you agree?

Well, the twelfth "apostolos" or the twelfth "sent-one" was Matthias or Mattityahu in Hebrew, which means "gift of YAHUWH." He WAS selected by the other believers as one of two, but the lot fell upon him, which was how matters were to be decided by God through the instructions given in the Tanakh (the OT, e.g. Num. 26:55-56; 33:54; 34:13; 36:2-3). Anytime that an inheritance was involved, lots were cast, and they believed that God controlled all things random. Thus, it was GOD who ultimately selected Mattityahu. (His Hebrew name is the same as that of Matthew, btw.) These were people selected by the Messiah who were sent among the Jews to announce the arrival of the King during His offer of Himself as God's Messiah to be King - God's Anointed to be King.

Rav Sha`uwl (the Apostle Paul) had a different nomenclature: He may not have been one of the Twelve, but he WAS an "apostolos," a "sent-one." Only his mission was of a different nature. He was sent to the Goyim, the Gentiles:

Romans 11:13-14

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

KJV

Furthermore, there were other "apostoloi" as well:

Acts 14:13-15

13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

KJV

Thus, Barnabas, too, was an apostle! All the word means is "one who is sent (i.e. on a mission)" or a "missionary." Other words that are related are "emmissary" and "ambassador." And others, too, were sent:

Acts 15:22-27

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

KJV

The bottom line is this: The word "Apostle" is NOT synonymous with the Twelve, and there's nothing significant in the word itself. It simply means "missionary," and therefore, we have "apostles" today because we have "missionaries" today! Therefore, the twelve foundations will have among their names that of Mattityahu as well.

GOOD POST.

[OneLight]

Shalom, OneLight.

Shalom, just_fish.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" Rev 21:14 KJV

I heard this read the other day and it struck me -----

--- what names do you think are on the foundations? 11 are easy, but the 12th is the question. What do you think?

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Job 5:17

As a Messianic Jew, who it is makes little difference, IMO. You see, the twelve gates of the city were named for the twelve tribes of Isra'el. Thus, the twelve foundations, being named for the twelve "apostoloi" or the twelve ones sent or commissioned by the Adon Yeshua`, haMashiach Elohiym, are simply being named - being identified - so that one can find his way around in the huge, 1500-mile by 1500-mile by 1500-mile City! Again, I believe that the twelve foundations of the city Yerushalayim haChadashah are foundational LEVELS for a city that is 1500 miles high (based on a 660-foot "stadium" in Latin or "stadios" in Greek)! I believe that the first foundational level will be sunk into the new earth's crust when it lands after the Fire that Kefa (Peter) talks about in 2 Peter 3:7-12.

The twelve tribes around a city such as Yerushalayim haChadashah divide the city into twelve wedges, each wedge centered upon one gate. Thus, each wedge is named for the gate upon which it is centered. There will be an east-southeast gate, an east gate, an east-northeast gate, a north-northeast gate, a north gate, a north-northwest gate, a west-northwest gate, a west gate, a west-southwest gate, a south-southwest gate, a south gate, and a south-southeast gate, and the orders of these gates, I believe, can be found in Ezekiel 48:

Ezekiel 48:31-35

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

KJV

To get a feel for their REAL Hebrew names, one may consult the Complete Jewish Bible or simply look them up in a good concordance with a Hebrew dictionary:

Ezek 48:30-35

30-34 “‘These are the city exits; they are to be named after the tribes of Isra’el, three gates on each of the four sides; the four sides each measure just under one-and-a-half [miles]: on the north, gates named after Re’uven, Y’hudahand Levi; on the east, gates named after Yosef, Binyamin and Dan; on the south, gates named after Shim‘on, Yissakhar and Z’vulun; and on the west, gates named after Gad, Asher and Naftali.

35 “‘The perimeter of [the city] will be just under six [miles] long. And from that day on, the name of the city will be ADONAI Shamah [ADONAI is there].’”

CJB

This is NOT the same city as in Revelation 21 and 22, but is the city that will be the Jerusalem of the Millennium, called "YaHuWH-shameh" instead of "Yerushalayim," which is a slight play on words. This city, as can be seen in verse 35, is significantly smaller in size than the city in Revelation 21 and 22 though larger than the Old City.

One can see that these go around the city in a counterclockwise direction on a map, starting on the east side with the east-southeast gate named after Re`uven. In fact, the center gates on each side of the city will be named "Y'hudah," "Binyamin," "Yissakhar," and "Asher." (East to the traditional Jewish way of thinking would have been "up" or on the top of a map.)

But he does have an honest question.

Revelation 21:14

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This will be in the New Jerusalem and we know the eleven, and Candice offered the twelfth. Do you agree?

Well, the twelfth "apostolos" or the twelfth "sent-one" was Matthias or Mattityahu in Hebrew, which means "gift of YAHUWH." He WAS selected by the other believers as one of two, but the lot fell upon him, which was how matters were to be decided by God through the instructions given in the Tanakh (the OT, e.g. Num. 26:55-56; 33:54; 34:13; 36:2-3). Anytime that an inheritance was involved, lots were cast, and they believed that God controlled all things random. Thus, it was GOD who ultimately selected Mattityahu. (His Hebrew name is the same as that of Matthew, btw.) These were people selected by the Messiah who were sent among the Jews to announce the arrival of the King during His offer of Himself as God's Messiah to be King - God's Anointed to be King.

Rav Sha`uwl (the Apostle Paul) had a different nomenclature: He may not have been one of the Twelve, but he WAS an "apostolos," a "sent-one." Only his mission was of a different nature. He was sent to the Goyim, the Gentiles:

Romans 11:13-14

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

KJV

Furthermore, there were other "apostoloi" as well:

Acts 14:13-15

13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

KJV

Thus, Barnabas, too, was an apostle! All the word means is "one who is sent (i.e. on a mission)" or a "missionary." Other words that are related are "emmissary" and "ambassador." And others, too, were sent:

Acts 15:22-27

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

KJV

The bottom line is this: The word "Apostle" is NOT synonymous with the Twelve, and there's nothing significant in the word itself. It simply means "missionary," and therefore, we have "apostles" today because we have "missionaries" today! Therefore, the twelve foundations will have among their names that of Mattityahu as well.

In general, I would agree that the term Apostle means "one sent" or "ambassador". Yet, this particular verse speaks of specific ones sent by the Lamb. These can only mean the ones Christ sent.

As for who the twelfth one is, nobody knows for sure. We can only speculate by giving our reasons, but scripture is silent on this matter. We can agree that if they are the ones sent by the Lamb, then they have to be the ones chosen by the Lord Himself, yes?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, OneLight.

...

In general, I would agree that the term Apostle means "one sent" or "ambassador". Yet, this particular verse speaks of specific ones sent by the Lamb. These can only mean the ones Christ sent.

As for who the twelfth one is, nobody knows for sure. We can only speculate by giving our reasons, but scripture is silent on this matter. We can agree that if they are the ones sent by the Lamb, then they have to be the ones chosen by the Lord Himself, yes?

You mean that Yochanan was silent on this matter in Revelation 21:14 as to exactly whom were considered the "twelve apostles of the Lamb." Lukas, however, was quite vocal on the matter in Acts 1:15-26. And, there are some reasons as to why someone would expect Rav Sha`uwl, called "Paulos" after his Roman benefactor and sponsor, Sergius Paulus, for freeing him from the influences of Elymas the sorcerer (Acts 13:4-12), to be one of the Twelve because Yeshua` Himself knocked him to the ground and commissioned him (Acts 9:6, 15); however, if you will carefully check Acts 9:15, he was said to be "a chosen vessel unto me (Yeshua`) to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel." Thus, Paul's mission was not directly to the Jews, but was to the Gentiles.

Lukas (Luke), however, notes this about Mattityahu (Matthias) and Joseph Barsabas "Justus" as candidates:

Acts 1:20-23

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

KJV

Thus, both men were of the disciples who were witnesses of Yeshua`s resurrection and had been among the disciples since Yochanan first baptized Yeshua` until He ascended in Acts 1:10. Although they were not of the Twelve who were commissioned in Matthew 10, Mark 6, and Luke 9, they were at least privy to the commission in Matthew 10:5-42. The Twelve were instructed specifically:

Matthew 10:5-8

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

KJV

Miracles were performed by both Yeshua` and the Twelve that God may, through them, confirm the message that they heralded, namely, "The Kingdom from the sky is within your grasp!" If you go through the Gospels, particularly Matthew, you will find that the message about the Kingdom always went hand in hand with miracles as God's stamp of approval, and that both the message and the miracles were for the Jews to convince them that Yeshua` was the Messiah of God to be the King of Isra'el - God's Anointed to be King of Isra'el, just as predicted by Gavri'el (Gabriel) in Luke 1:30-33:

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

KJV

Thus, their ministry was more geared to Isra'el and the Jews, which was the same for the one who would replace Y'hudah Keriot (Judas Iscariot).

[OneLight]

Shalom, OneLight.

...

In general, I would agree that the term Apostle means "one sent" or "ambassador". Yet, this particular verse speaks of specific ones sent by the Lamb. These can only mean the ones Christ sent.

As for who the twelfth one is, nobody knows for sure. We can only speculate by giving our reasons, but scripture is silent on this matter. We can agree that if they are the ones sent by the Lamb, then they have to be the ones chosen by the Lord Himself, yes?

You mean that Yochanan was silent on this matter in Revelation 21:14 as to exactly whom were considered the "twelve apostles of the Lamb." Lukas, however, was quite vocal on the matter in Acts 1:15-26. And, there are some reasons as to why someone would expect Rav Sha`uwl, called "Paulos" after his Roman benefactor and sponsor, Sergius Paulus, for freeing him from the influences of Elymas the sorcerer (Acts 13:4-12), to be one of the Twelve because Yeshua` Himself knocked him to the ground and commissioned him (Acts 9:6, 15); however, if you will carefully check Acts 9:15, he was said to be "a chosen vessel unto me (Yeshua`) to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel." Thus, Paul's mission was not directly to the Jews, but was to the Gentiles.

Lukas (Luke), however, notes this about Mattityahu (Matthias) and Joseph Barsabas "Justus" as candidates:

Acts 1:20-23

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

KJV

Thus, both men were of the disciples who were witnesses of Yeshua`s resurrection and had been among the disciples since Yochanan first baptized Yeshua` until He ascended in Acts 1:10. Although they were not of the Twelve who were commissioned in Matthew 10, Mark 6, and Luke 9, they were at least privy to the commission in Matthew 10:5-42. The Twelve were instructed specifically:

Matthew 10:5-8

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

KJV

Miracles were performed by both Yeshua` and the Twelve that God may, through them, confirm the message that they heralded, namely, "The Kingdom from the sky is within your grasp!" If you go through the Gospels, particularly Matthew, you will find that the message about the Kingdom always went hand in hand with miracles as God's stamp of approval, and that both the message and the miracles were for the Jews to convince them that Yeshua` was the Messiah of God to be the King of Isra'el - God's Anointed to be King of Isra'el, just as predicted by Gavri'el (Gabriel) in Luke 1:30-33:

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

KJV

Thus, their ministry was more geared to Isra'el and the Jews, which was the same for the one who would replace Y'hudah Keriot (Judas Iscariot).

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

[Zemke]

I like the use of Hebrew, a beginner lesson in a way. I've been shown a few areas where word play in the original languages, especially the Hebrew, brings out more meaning in the text. Those things cannot, in most areas, carry across in the translations. As we continue approaching the day of resurrection more Jews will be saved. With Hebrew being resurrected as a national language, a fulfillment of prophecy, I think it's something we will get used to.

[Guest]

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

Here Brother, Let Me Help :24:

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

=

בבקשה, אתה יכול להשתמש בשמות אנגליים כדי שאוכל לתקשר איתך?

[Guest]

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

Here Brother, Let Me Help :24:

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

=

בבקשה, אתה יכול להשתמש בשמות אנגליים כדי שאוכל לתקשר איתך?

[OneLight]

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

Here Brother, Let Me Help :24:

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

=

בבקשה, אתה יכול להשתמש בשמות אנגליים כדי שאוכל לתקשר איתך?

... Um, Thanks Bro, I think!

[~candice~]

Joe

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, FresnoJoe.

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

Here Brother, Let Me Help :24:

Please, can you use English names so I can communicate with you?

=

בבקשה, אתה יכול להשתמש בשמות אנגליים כדי שאוכל לתקשר איתך?

Ummm... Your question mark is on the wrong end.