Alms/Giving to Charity - best way to give!

[taylor30]

I am not selfish, but you would think horns had sprouted out of my head from the looks of some churchgoers when week after week the collection plate is passed and I never put anything in.

Why do you attend a church you don't trust?

For instance my church does a comprehensive breakdown of our finances once a year, including where every cent goes, bills,etc.

I don't trust ANY church. Churches are run by fallible man and are potentially corrupt. Even IF a church accounted for every cent, it wouldn't matter to me. I believe I know better than an organization where my money should go.

[SavedByGrace1981]

I don't trust ANY church. Churches are run by fallible man and are potentially corrupt. Even IF a church accounted for every cent, it wouldn't matter to me. I believe I know better than an organization where my money should go.

Since I believe (for Christians) all giving should be between the giver and the Lord, I am not directing this at you personally - only at the point you are making.

I feel rather strongly about it - because I believe the Lord ordained the local church - and the local church could not function if every member and attendee had the attitude not to give (because they are potentially corrupt.)

I have in the past (not currently) served as treasurer in the church I currently attend. I believe accountability is the best defense against human corruption. In other words, I could only write and sign checks for board approved expenses. And, in the larger realm, our local church board was accountable to the District. And the District is accountable to the National Headquarters. And so on.

Accountability is not a perfect system (no system created by man is), but it works pretty well.

Just my $0.02

Blessings!

-Ed

[taylor30]

I don't trust ANY church. Churches are run by fallible man and are potentially corrupt. Even IF a church accounted for every cent, it wouldn't matter to me. I believe I know better than an organization where my money should go.

Since I believe (for Christians) all giving should be between the giver and the Lord, I am not directing this at you personally - only at the point you are making.

I feel rather strongly about it - because I believe the Lord ordained the local church - and the local church could not function if every member and attendee had the attitude not to give (because they are potentially corrupt.)

I have in the past (not currently) served as treasurer in the church I currently attend. I believe accountability is the best defense against human corruption. In other words, I could only write and sign checks for board approved expenses. And, in the larger realm, our local church board was accountable to the District. And the District is accountable to the National Headquarters. And so on.

Accountability is not a perfect system (no system created by man is), but it works pretty well.

Just my $0.02

Blessings!

-Ed

I can understand your point. But let me put it this way.

OPTION # 1. I can give to a church or charity and HOPE my hard earned offering is not misused or mishandled.

OPTION # 2. I can give my money and offering to an area where the church doesn't reach and I can KNOW 100% my money is nite being mishandled or misused.

I don't think I need to say which option is clearly better. Also, I have begged the church for help when I really needed it and I was turned away. The church doesn't need my money and God can show me better places to put it.

[SavedByGrace1981]

I don't trust ANY church. Churches are run by fallible man and are potentially corrupt. Even IF a church accounted for every cent, it wouldn't matter to me. I believe I know better than an organization where my money should go.

Since I believe (for Christians) all giving should be between the giver and the Lord, I am not directing this at you personally - only at the point you are making.

I feel rather strongly about it - because I believe the Lord ordained the local church - and the local church could not function if every member and attendee had the attitude not to give (because they are potentially corrupt.)

I have in the past (not currently) served as treasurer in the church I currently attend. I believe accountability is the best defense against human corruption. In other words, I could only write and sign checks for board approved expenses. And, in the larger realm, our local church board was accountable to the District. And the District is accountable to the National Headquarters. And so on.

Accountability is not a perfect system (no system created by man is), but it works pretty well.

Just my $0.02

Blessings!

-Ed

I can understand your point. But let me put it this way.

OPTION # 1. I can give to a church or charity and HOPE my hard earned offering is not misused or mishandled.

OPTION # 2. I can give my money and offering to an area where the church doesn't reach and I can KNOW 100% my money is nite being mishandled or misused.

I don't think I need to say which option is clearly better. Also, I have begged the church for help when I really needed it and I was turned away. The church doesn't need my money and God can show me better places to put it.

Again, if you truly are seeking God's guidance and the Holy Spirit's direction in your giving, then I cannot criticize you one way or the other. That is between you and the Lord.

But the local church - which has (or should have) a ministry of spreading God's Word in addition to charity - could not exist if everyone had the same opinion you hold. And the New Testament writer of Hebrews in 10:24-25 seems to think the local church has a purpose:

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I am truly sorry to hear that you were turned away by the church when you needed help. Without knowing all the circumstances, it's probably not proper for me to comment further. I can share with you how our local church handles similar situations, however.

First of all, we are a small church. (less than 50 members, and average Sunday Morning service of between 70-80). We are located in an economically depressed area.

But even so, we are blessed by the fact that most of our members DO tithe (give 10 percent), which allows us to stay current on our bills, pay the pastor and provide him a place to live, help support the work of missionaries worldwide, and even keep and maintain a "benevolence" fund.

When we become aware of needs, we give what we can out of that fund (it has to go before the Board for accountability). Recently we were able to provide a $200 credit at a local grocery store for a family dealing with illness and unemployment. In another case, we were able to provide a $50 tank of gas for someone dealing with taking a parent back and forth to the hospital for chemo treatments. These are just two examples - there have been others.

Are these life changing amounts of money we are able to give? No - of course not. Nor are they intended to be. They are there just to get someone through a difficult time - to show love and support for the local church body.

In your criticisms, you painted "the church" with a rather broad brush in calling it corrupt. So that is why I felt the need to respond as I did. The other side of the coin, if you will.

Blessings!

-Ed

[taylor30]

I don't trust ANY church. Churches are run by fallible man and are potentially corrupt. Even IF a church accounted for every cent, it wouldn't matter to me. I believe I know better than an organization where my money should go.

Since I believe (for Christians) all giving should be between the giver and the Lord, I am not directing this at you personally - only at the point you are making.

I feel rather strongly about it - because I believe the Lord ordained the local church - and the local church could not function if every member and attendee had the attitude not to give (because they are potentially corrupt.)

I have in the past (not currently) served as treasurer in the church I currently attend. I believe accountability is the best defense against human corruption. In other words, I could only write and sign checks for board approved expenses. And, in the larger realm, our local church board was accountable to the District. And the District is accountable to the National Headquarters. And so on.

Accountability is not a perfect system (no system created by man is), but it works pretty well.

Just my $0.02

Blessings!

-Ed

I can understand your point. But let me put it this way.

OPTION # 1. I can give to a church or charity and HOPE my hard earned offering is not misused or mishandled.

OPTION # 2. I can give my money and offering to an area where the church doesn't reach and I can KNOW 100% my money is nite being mishandled or misused.

I don't think I need to say which option is clearly better. Also, I have begged the church for help when I really needed it and I was turned away. The church doesn't need my money and God can show me better places to put it.

Again, if you truly are seeking God's guidance and the Holy Spirit's direction in your giving, then I cannot criticize you one way or the other. That is between you and the Lord.

But the local church - which has (or should have) a ministry of spreading God's Word in addition to charity - could not exist if everyone had the same opinion you hold. And the New Testament writer of Hebrews in 10:24-25 seems to think the local church has a purpose:

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I am truly sorry to hear that you were turned away by the church when you needed help. Without knowing all the circumstances, it's probably not proper for me to comment further. I can share with you how our local church handles similar situations, however.

First of all, we are a small church. (less than 50 members, and average Sunday Morning service of between 70-80). We are located in an economically depressed area.

But even so, we are blessed by the fact that most of our members DO tithe (give 10 percent), which allows us to stay current on our bills, pay the pastor and provide him a place to live, help support the work of missionaries worldwide, and even keep and maintain a "benevolence" fund.

When we become aware of needs, we give what we can out of that fund (it has to go before the Board for accountability). Recently we were able to provide a $200 credit at a local grocery store for a family dealing with illness and unemployment. In another case, we were able to provide a $50 tank of gas for someone dealing with taking a parent back and forth to the hospital for chemo treatments. These are just two examples - there have been others.

Are these life changing amounts of money we are able to give? No - of course not. Nor are they intended to be. They are there just to get someone through a difficult time - to show love and support for the local church body.

In your criticisms, you painted "the church" with a rather broad brush in calling it corrupt. So that is why I felt the need to respond as I did. The other side of the coin, if you will.

Blessings!

-Ed

I appreciate your words. It sounds like your small church is a good one and doing what it is supposed to. However it is not my desire to discourage people from giving to churches as it appears that is what people think I said. I will never tell someone not to give to church. My only point was that the church is not the ONLY place to give. Christians seem to have the idea that the church is THE place to give. Except there is no command for Christians to give to churches. Paul only told people to be generous givers, he didn't say where they had to do it. Also, the very concept of a public offering has always rubbed me wrong. We are supposed to be humble and give in secret. We can't do that with everyone looking to see how much we put in the plate. I am glad you admitted you can't really judge, of course that concept is lost on most Christians. I generally have a bad reputation among Christians because I refuse to put anything in the plate. I DO give, but I don't let anyone see it. I have no doubt that God will reward me for it, but that doesn't help now when my so called "Christian" brothers and sisters think I am selfish and greedy.

I am only saying its ok to give to places other than the church and to ask my Christian associates reading this to be slow to judge your fellow believer because they may be doing incredible good that you have no knowledge of. GOD BLESS.

[Fez]

OPTION # 1. I can give to a church or charity and HOPE my hard earned offering is not misused or mishandled.

If you are a member of a good church and are involved in all it's activities in faithful service you know exactly where your tithe or offering is going. I can even designate where my offering should go.

And as a matter of interest, we meet in a free venue and our pastor does not draw a salary. He supports himself and his family from investments in property he sold to become a full time pastor.

Our elders and leadership team meet to discuss where the money is best used to bless, and it is no secret, the church books are open for anyone in the congregation to read.

[ColinOfChurch-Development]

I need an opinion, each year I try to give to a good cause it's just my way of giving back. I was watching an advert for a Charity in the UK which is international and I wondered something - how much of what I give goes to the actual cause and not to administration fees! The moment this thought went in my mind I was unable to donate at all so what I have done is put some money aside to give to a good cause. But its now been 2- 3 years that I havent (I usually donate it at the start of each year - you know start the year on a good deed! its now three years worth!)

A lot of people have given some really solid advice already -- namely prayer and discernment in where to give. These days though, there are also a number of charity raters (you can google this) link removed by Mizzdy

I doubt they're perfect, but they can at least give you a ballpark.

Personally, I have a great church that strives to give. Twice a year we close our doors on Sunday to go out and serve the community collectively (in addition to normal week-to-week aid). I trust my pastors and the ministry and I've had many opportunities to be involved with them and see what goes where.

Finally, some of this issue is in the heart (I'm not saying that you're doing something wrong -- rather that we all struggle with things). I hope you've got some people to chat to about it.

[mizzdy]

I appreciate your words. It sounds like your small church is a good one and doing what it is supposed to. However it is not my desire to discourage people from giving to churches as it appears that is what people think I said. I will never tell someone not to give to church. My only point was that the church is not the ONLY place to give. Christians seem to have the idea that the church is THE place to give. Except there is no command for Christians to give to churches. Paul only told people to be generous givers, he didn't say where they had to do it. Also, the very concept of a public offering has always rubbed me wrong. We are supposed to be humble and give in secret. We can't do that with everyone looking to see how much we put in the plate. I am glad you admitted you can't really judge, of course that concept is lost on most Christians. I generally have a bad reputation among Christians because I refuse to put anything in the plate. I DO give, but I don't let anyone see it. I have no doubt that God will reward me for it, but that doesn't help now when my so called "Christian" brothers and sisters think I am selfish and greedy.

I am only saying its ok to give to places other than the church and to ask my Christian associates reading this to be slow to judge your fellow believer because they may be doing incredible good that you have no knowledge of. GOD BLESS.

I do understand your sentiments yet when we give we are to give and allow God to direct where it goes. Do you ever give money to someone homeless and then tell them where they can spend the money or do you allow God to direct it? We are to give to our fellowships thats what the tithing system was set up for, to give to the temple who then distributes to the where God directed it. Sure there are many obvious places where ones money doesnt seem to be going where its needed, many of the WOF, prosperity gospels and such, we need to have discretion on if we should even be involved with those things.

I am not a huge fan of passing the offering plate and feel that it might be best to leave a box or basket where offerings are made. But understand that this happens usually for convience sake and nothing more. And yes its fine to give to other charities also but we should not forget our own pastors, needy, etc, within our own community or fellowship. If you look at the model given to Israel as tithes and it is from the commandments given to Israel where it comes from, we see giving for certain things. The actual sacrifices fed not only the priests but their entire families, then there are the tithes to the widows and orphans, etc. How do you support your fellowship unless you give some tithes to them? I think what we read about Stephen is a good one and shows us exactly how we are to give, with a free will offering, they gather all things at the temple then send them out to the needy. We are told put our offerings in the store house so that there would be food for all in His house. Give where you feel the need is greatest yet dont neglect those that are sitting next to you in our fellowship either.

We now give all our offerings to our fellowship, we know exactly where our offering are going. If you have dont know where yours are going I would ask for a break down of finances from your church.

shalom,

Mizz

[Fez]

Interesting the collection plate should be mentioned. In our church when they are passed around you will see a lot of people on most Sundays just pass it on without putting anything in it. Not for the reasons the OP mentioned, but because we tithe, most of us on a monthly basis.

We have nothing to prove to the rest of the congregation by placing cash in the collection boxes for people to see, and if truth be told they are not bothered one way or the other. There is no judgement.

[ColinOfChurch-Development]

A lot of people have given some really solid advice already -- namely prayer and discernment in where to give. These days though, there are also a number of charity raters (you can google this) link removed by Mizzdy

Whoops, guess I can't mention any specific site. Google them, and ye shall find.

Edited April 13, 2012 by ColinOfChurch-Development