Matthitjah Posted April 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2012 Here's more; Special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charges but would not discuss how she arrived at them or disclose other details of her investigation, saying: "That's why we try cases in court." Second-degree murder is typically brought in cases when there is a fight or other confrontation that results in death and but does involve a premeditated plan to kill. Yes! We do not yell and scream Murder. We do not try cases without the facts. We are a Nation of Laws. I pray that she prosecutes the Black Panther Party as well before all is said and done. She has looked at the facts surrounding the case and has come to an obviously sound conclusion. Shame on those who stated that Zimmerman stalked and then murdered Treyvon! Shame on those who called for his murder and those who were complicite! Know what's odd? I was going to link to the AP story from which these quotes were taken and suddenly it's gone. It's changed to a story about Zimmermans lawyer asking for calm as Zimmerman turns himself in. Do you pray she also prosecutes the other racist who publicly said they will be down there with guns protecting white people. The fact is the charge is still murder...just not premeditated. I don't think he went with the intent to kill the kid....but kill the kid he did. So I think second degree murder is a charge rightfully given. Shame on you for being so self righteous. You also still never answered my question about O.J...but its ok...we can let that ride. I do think that the jury selection will be crazy hard. I really don't think that there will be an unbiased jury either way. Unless they go to some country spot... OJ Simpson has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. Yes, I did say that they should lock up the Neo Nazi Skinheads down there looking for violencew. They should also arrest Jesse Jacskon and Al Sharpton for hate crimes. Obama and the Justice Department should also be held accoountable for standing by and fanning the flames especially Holder for saying Al Sharpton should be applauded for his role in all of this. Sad really. P.S. You were one of the ones on here crying Murder with no facts whatsoever to back them up. Murder means pre-meditation. Apparently the Prosecutor couldn't even find any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted April 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2012 Here's more; Special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charges but would not discuss how she arrived at them or disclose other details of her investigation, saying: "That's why we try cases in court." Second-degree murder is typically brought in cases when there is a fight or other confrontation that results in death and but does involve a premeditated plan to kill. Yes! We do not yell and scream Murder. We do not try cases without the facts. We are a Nation of Laws. I pray that she prosecutes the Black Panther Party as well before all is said and done. She has looked at the facts surrounding the case and has come to an obviously sound conclusion. Shame on those who stated that Zimmerman stalked and then murdered Treyvon! Shame on those who called for his murder and those who were complicite! Know what's odd? I was going to link to the AP story from which these quotes were taken and suddenly it's gone. It's changed to a story about Zimmermans lawyer asking for calm as Zimmerman turns himself in. Do you pray she also prosecutes the other racist who publicly said they will be down there with guns protecting white people. The fact is the charge is still murder...just not premeditated. I don't think he went with the intent to kill the kid....but kill the kid he did. So I think second degree murder is a charge rightfully given. Shame on you for being so self righteous. You also still never answered my question about O.J...but its ok...we can let that ride. I do think that the jury selection will be crazy hard. I really don't think that there will be an unbiased jury either way. Unless they go to some country spot... OJ Simpson has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. Yes, I did say that they should lock up the Neo Nazi Skinheads down there looking for violencew. They should also arrest Jesse Jacskon and Al Sharpton for hate crimes. Obama and the Justice Department should also be held accoountable for standing by and fanning the flames especially Holder for saying Al Sharpton should be applauded for his role in all of this. Sad really. P.S. You were one of the ones on here crying Murder with no facts whatsoever to back them up. Murder means pre-meditation. Apparently the Prosecutor couldn't even find any. Look we know that they are wrong...but if you are gonna say anything are you speaking up when the Klan goes on their marches? Also, murder does not mean pre-meditation. Second degree murder does not...guess what word didn't change. Actually OJ has a lot to do with the public assumptions which you are so kind to point out are wrong. P.S You still never answered if you believed he was guilty or innocent before the trial and evidence and all that other good stuff you are harping on. You're being kinda silly brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted April 12, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted April 12, 2012 What does Mike Tyson think about George Zimmerman? Welllll, Mike said " Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace." Well Mike, I think it is a disgrace that you only served three years for rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 What law did Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton break again? Biblically, they have violated all kinds of Christian laws and codes, and they have both done so for decades. And since they both claim to be "men of God" they should be concerned with keeping biblical laws and tenets first and foremost. First of all, since they both claim to be ministers or reverends, they have a much higher responsibility, and will be judged accordingly, something they have both obviously forgotten: James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. Secondly, they are openly engaging in malicious slander, because they are stating things as fact when they have no proof as to whether they are fact or not. I can point you to 14 different passages in the NT that speak specifically about slander and none of them talk about it in good terms, they all condemn slander in any form. As ministers, they should have this part figured out too, but they evidently don't. Thirdly, they are both very, very angry people. A Christian, especially a minister is supposed to be filled with love, not anger, and ministers are certainly not supposed to be openly or even secretly fomenting racial violence. These things are pretty obvious and no-brainers, if one actually follows the tenets of the Bible they claim to believe in. It should be even more obvious for those who claim to be ministers of the Word. In a social sense, apart from biblical guidelines, they are engaging in slander, libel and character assassination, which are all against the law. I think it is also pretty obvious that they are trying, in a very real way, to incite people to violence. That would also be against the law. That's not inciting people to violence, no. Inciting people to violence is saying "Hey everyone, go do physical harm to this person." Unless they said that, then no, that's not inciting violence. Does it stir the pot? Yeah. I don't see Nancy Grace in prison and you could easily, if not more appropriately apply that logic to her. Everything else you listed is pretty much not punishable by a prison sentence, and really depends on how the case goes. I do not think what they said is right. I only think that they have the right to say it. Advocating throwing people in jail for something that is not even punishable by that is selectively applying freedoms in America, and punishing them for something that they did not do. Basic freedoms and rights apply to everybody in America. Even if you don't agree with them. Doing otherwise is very police state ind of thing to do. BE, why are you defending Sharpton and Jackson? Would you classify their actions as Biblical? Godly? I do not agree with what they said, by far. Someone said they should be jailed. I asked what laws they broke that would result in jail time. Nothing was provided. My position is simply that however much you disagree with what someone says, if the response is that they should be thrown in jail then that person is selectively applying rights and freedoms in America to whom it is they agree with, which would be incredibly dangerous to be done at a Governmental level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I do not agree with what they said, by far. Someone said they should be jailed. I asked what laws they broke that would result in jail time. Nothing was provided. My position is simply that however much you disagree with what someone says, if the response is that they should be thrown in jail then that person is selectively applying rights and freedoms in America to whom it is they agree with, which would be incredibly dangerous to be done at a Governmental level. Is it a crime to incite violence? If so, then that could be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have to ask about the self-defense and 2nd degree murder conflict. The original assessment was self-defense which is protected by law. Now he is charged with 2nd degree murder which is killing someone in a fight without premeditation. Where is the line drawn - self-defense vs. murdering someone in a fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is it a crime to incite violence? If so, then that could be it. The Black Panthers incited violence by posting a reward for Zimmerman. That is a very obvious and clear cut case of inciting violence. That is a prosecutable case. Unless you can show me where Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson did anything similar, then no, they didn't do that. The mob mentality works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 13, 2012 2nd degree murder is intentionally killing someone without premeditation, such as in the heat of the moment. You mean to kill them at the moment that you do so, though you had not made advanced plans to do so. Ie. A man walks into a bar to have a drink. The only intention he has is to have a drink. He sees a man making out with his wife. In the heat of the moment he decided to pull his gun and shoot the man. He did not have plans to murder anyone when he entered the bar, so there was no premeditation. But, the murder of the man was intentional in a moment of passion. Therefore it is murder in the 2nd degree, So, the trial is to determine if he shot with intent to kill vs doing what it would take to defend himself? I'm not sure I get it. Not long ago a widowed young mother shot with intent to kill one of two intruders that broke into her home in self defense. So what draws the line between self-defense and second-degree murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 So, the trial is to determine if he shot with intent to kill vs doing what it would take to defend himself? I'm not sure I get it. Not long ago a widowed young mother shot with intent to kill one of two intruders that broke into her home in self defense. So what draws the line between self-defense and second-degree murder? Florida law defines 2nd Degree murder as follows. (2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. If Zimmerman shot Trayvon without intending to kill him, then that's really all that's needed. Trayvon and a friend didn't break into his house, so that comparison isn't a good one. Trayvon was walking along the street, Zimmerman approached him, and then a scuffle happened. If Trayvon reacted because someone was following him from a car at night in the rain, and Zimmerman shot him in the ensuing conflict, that could very easily fit 2nd Degree murder. Unless Zimmerman was in danger of dying, considering that he walked into a police station that night with only first aid on site from the police and with no bandages, that'll be tough to prove. As an example, a bar fight that ends in an accidental death is 2nd degree murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted April 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2012 The words depraved mind in the Florida statute are very telling. Legal definition of depraved mind... The condition of mind described as depravity of mind is characterized by an inherent deficiency of moral sense and integrity. It consists of evil, corrupt and perverted intent which is devoid of regard for human dignity and which is indifferent to human life. It is a state of mind outrageously horrible or inhuman. If this is the definition Florida has adopted, in order to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder, they must prove him to be a virtual monster. This is a high bar to reach. I wonder what they have for evidence? More accurately, they just have to prove that he acted without regard for human life. That's much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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