The symbolic prophecy of the rapture.

[rjp34652]

rjp

The church is indeed disappearing. Not in miraculous fashion as in the dreams of writers of religious fiction, but as a process of inglorious decay and rot. Jesus does not come for the church. He comes for Israel.

First of all the church is not disappearing. Read Matt 16:16 - and Peter said; You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Now based on what Peter just said... v18b - and on this rock (Christ Himself) I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. No the Church (the Bride of Christ) is not disappearing, Yes, there may be a prodical aspect viewed in the Church of Today, But the Church is not dead and cannot die, for Christ is it's cornerstone. Have wrong teachings come and gone into and out of the Church, Yes. But the Body of Christ is still growing.

This Body/Church/Bride of Christ is made up ob both Jew and Gentile. We this Body/Church/Bride of Christ is to make Israel Jealous. Israel are the natural branches, We are the wild branches by nature. We are both grafted into the vine (Jesus Christ) - Future. But Unbelieving Israel at this time has been yanked of the vine. God is waiting for Israel to be re-grafted back into the vine (Jesus Christ). This will happen at the Second Coming when Israel says to Jesus "You are my God" and Jesus responds with "You are my People"

Now where will/is the Body/Church/Bride of Christ to be? IF, I abide in you, and you abide in me - (We are One) - (One in Spirit). Jesus has sent us the B/C/Bof C the Comfortor in the HS. He abides in US. Israel does not have this HS in them. Gal 3:14 - I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Israel never reaches this heavenward goal that we receive. For their next step is to be with Christ for 1000 years on this earth after His Second Coming. They have not achieved "Heavenward".

But Paul say we will be "heavenward", for that is part of our reward. If we (B/C/BofC) are 'Heavenward" then we have received our immortal bodies. When did we go, 1 Thes 4:16,17 - The dead in Christ shall rise First, Then we who are alive will be caught up to meet them in the air, and so be with Christ Jesus forever. The key is those who are dead/alive "In Christ", thus to be in Christ one must have the Comfortor in the HS. This is the Harpozo (Rapture).

The Church's forever begins at the Harpozo (Rapture). Israel's forever begins at the Second Coming. Them, being regrafted back into the Vine (Jesus Christ).

In Christ

Montana Marv

I like your spin on the issue. Don't agree with you, but I like your thinking. You've been exercising your brain, which is something that adherents of rapture heresy fail to do (apart from making endless lists of scripture to justify their position - which is useless and unfruitful).

I do agree with part of your assertion in that Jesus will return for Israel. In all portions of the Bible, one of His titles is King of the Jews. The historical heretics generally overlook that part, or spin it to their own ends such as story lines that state the church is 'spiritual Israel'. The core of all end times prophecy is Israel. Not America, not Europe, not even the world as a whole - Israel.

With regard to world events, I do not believe that God is 'waiting' for anything. Not for nothing is He called King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That means God is the engineer of history, not the victim of it. Rheinhold Neibuhr, in his book THE NATURE AND DESTINY OF MAN, stated aptly that man is the lord of nature, but God is the lord of history. Too often men get the two confused, even Christian men. The book of Genesis stated clearly that man is to tend the earth, meaning he is to be the lord of nature. The gospels demonstrated clearly that Jesus is the lord of history, that even the combined efforts of spiritual wickedness and the political devations of man cannot defeat the designs of Almighty God.

As for the church, it's already dead - absorbed into the world system and the world's culture. Everywhere you look the church reflects the culture of man rather than the power of the Kingdom of God. The biggest and best of what America calls worship, the mega churches, are more like a Vegas show on Sunday morning than a house of prayer. They are now the standard of worship that's imitated by the small tiny churches that can't afford a professional entertainment staff. The Vegas style entertainment has been accepted everywhere as the way to do it. Exactly what 'it' is remains a subject of debate.

Every major denomination has abandoned its definition of the Bible as the Word of God. Our Lord, in turn, has withdrawn His spirit from them. The candles of Revelation, which represent spiritual guidance and presence in individual churches, have been put out. God is now clearing away the dead wood. Those that wait for a rapture of the church will be disappointed because the church no longer exists as an entity representative of holy writ, holy spirit, or holy devotion among its congregants. We now fuss and argue over meaningless points such as rapture, tribulation, millennium, marriage etc. while the rest of the culture goes to blazes.

The true concern of the church ought to be a society of men who are dying; dying to God, dying to eternity, dying to themselves and dying to their community. Rather than waiting in our comfortable easy chairs for an illusory evacuation we ought to be rising in effort to rule the day. Apathy and hidden lights beneath a bushel will not persuade the throne of heaven to pluck anyone out of the morass of the worldly minded.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited April 7, 2013 by rjp34652

[Sevenseas]

Now that is what I call a summation. Nicely done and amen. And I'm not trying to be smart...I just totally agree and also agree with the post concerning prophecy and fiction. Well said .

[back2thebible]

rjp

The church is indeed disappearing. Not in miraculous fashion as in the dreams of writers of religious fiction, but as a process of inglorious decay and rot. Jesus does not come for the church. He comes for Israel.

First of all the church is not disappearing. Read Matt 16:16 - and Peter said; You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Now based on what Peter just said... v18b - and on this rock (Christ Himself) I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. No the Church (the Bride of Christ) is not disappearing, Yes, there may be a prodical aspect viewed in the Church of Today, But the Church is not dead and cannot die, for Christ is it's cornerstone. Have wrong teachings come and gone into and out of the Church, Yes. But the Body of Christ is still growing.

This Body/Church/Bride of Christ is made up ob both Jew and Gentile. We this Body/Church/Bride of Christ is to make Israel Jealous. Israel are the natural branches, We are the wild branches by nature. We are both grafted into the vine (Jesus Christ) - Future. But Unbelieving Israel at this time has been yanked of the vine. God is waiting for Israel to be re-grafted back into the vine (Jesus Christ). This will happen at the Second Coming when Israel says to Jesus "You are my God" and Jesus responds with "You are my People"

Now where will/is the Body/Church/Bride of Christ to be? IF, I abide in you, and you abide in me - (We are One) - (One in Spirit). Jesus has sent us the B/C/Bof C the Comfortor in the HS. He abides in US. Israel does not have this HS in them. Gal 3:14 - I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Israel never reaches this heavenward goal that we receive. For their next step is to be with Christ for 1000 years on this earth after His Second Coming. They have not achieved "Heavenward".

But Paul say we will be "heavenward", for that is part of our reward. If we (B/C/BofC) are 'Heavenward" then we have received our immortal bodies. When did we go, 1 Thes 4:16,17 - The dead in Christ shall rise First, Then we who are alive will be caught up to meet them in the air, and so be with Christ Jesus forever. The key is those who are dead/alive "In Christ", thus to be in Christ one must have the Comfortor in the HS. This is the Harpozo (Rapture).

The Church's forever begins at the Harpozo (Rapture). Israel's forever begins at the Second Coming. Them, being regrafted back into the Vine (Jesus Christ).

In Christ

Montana Marv

I like your spin on the issue. Don't agree with you, but I like your thinking. You've been exercising your brain, which is something that adherents of rapture heresy fail to do (apart from making endless lists of scripture to justify their position - which is useless and unfruitful).

I do agree with part of your assertion in that Jesus will return for Israel. In all portions of the Bible, one of His titles is King of the Jews. The historical heretics generally overlook that part, or spin it to their own ends such as story lines that state the church is 'spiritual Israel'. The core of all end times prophecy is Israel. Not America, not Europe, not even the world as a whole - Israel.

With regard to world events, I do not believe that God is 'waiting' for anything. Not for nothing is He called King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That means God is the engineer of history, not the victim of it. Rheinhold Neibuhr, in his book THE NATURE AND DESTINY OF MAN, stated aptly that man is the lord of nature, but God is the lord of history. Too often men get the two confused, even Christian men. The book of Genesis stated clearly that man is to tend the earth, meaning he is to be the lord of nature. The gospels demonstrated clearly that Jesus is the lord of history, that even the combined efforts of spiritual wickedness and the political devations of man cannot defeat the designs of Almighty God.

As for the church, it's already dead - absorbed into the world system and the world's culture. Everywhere you look the church reflects the culture of man rather than the power of the Kingdom of God. The biggest and best of what America calls worship, the mega churches, are more like a Vegas show on Sunday morning than a house of prayer. They are now the standard of worship that's imitated by the small tiny churches that can't afford a professional entertainment staff. The Vegas style entertainment has been accepted everywhere as the way to do it. Exactly what 'it' is remains a subject of debate.

Every major denomination has abandoned its definition of the Bible as the Word of God. Our Lord, in turn, has withdrawn His spirit from them. The candles of Revelation, which represent spiritual guidance and presence in individual churches, have been put out. God is now clearing away the dead wood. Those that wait for a rapture of the church will be disappointed because the church no longer exists as an entity representative of holy writ, holy spirit, or holy devotion among its congregants. We now fuss and argue over meaningless points such as rapture, tribulation, millennium, marriage etc. while the rest of the culture goes to blazes.

The true concern of the church ought to be a society of men who are dying; dying to God, dying to eternity, dying to themselves and dying to their community. Rather than waiting in our comfortable easy chairs for an illusory evacuation we ought to be rising in effort to rule the day. Apathy and hidden lights beneath a bushel will not persuade the throne of heaven to pluck anyone out of the morass of the worldly minded.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

thats me in the middle of the choir