other one Posted October 8, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,193 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,921 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted October 8, 2004 Conspiracy theorists have been around for a long time evidently.... So...FDR decided we should go ahead and destroy the entire Pacific Fleet too? It's just ludicrous. C'mon guys...use a brain cell. Yod, the Navy and times were changing drastically at that time, and it was believed that the aircraft carriers and their support ships were the thing of the future and the older battle ships and such were no match for the mobile air on the sea, so they were pretty much disposable and would not be effective in defense of the oceans as they were in the past. So he had the aircraft carriers and their support ships moved safely out to sea and the older no longer viable ships put into harbor. They also pretty much put the land based aircraft together out on the ramps to be easily destroyed by the Japanese air strikes. we only lost the part of our navy that would not have been effective against the air power in the first place. It also made for a good excuse of dealing with Hitler first, and then the Japanese later. All planned and executed in great detail. It did work, and very well. My only hope for our future is that I am wrong about what George Bush really is and maybe someone has the foresight to get this country behind another great war in defense of world democracy. I do have very little trust in that since they wrote plans about starting a war between Islam and the Jewish-Christian countries and drawing it out in a long bloody battle to the exhaustion of both sides as I remember the notes. By that time our national debt and obligations will be close to the worth of our nation and the 13 families who set up and own the Federal Reserve Banks will recall the loans and they will own this Nation lock stock and barrel. We'll all be out in the streets fighting to eat and the winners of that battle can live as surfs for the elite and do their bidding for food and shelter. I ramble so I'll just leave..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 No Yod, he made sure our most important ships, Aircraft carriers weren't in harbor. they were ALL important ships. That attack hurt our navy in a most drastic way. Aircraft carriers were an untested way of battle at that time. In other words, we were forced to use them primarily...it would not necessarily have been our first choice of naval power. But it is still ludicrous to think that we would allow the Pacific fleet to be destroyed so we could have an excuse to fight a war. that's like letting someone punch your teeth out so you have an excuse to bite them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted October 9, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2004 "that's like letting someone punch your teeth out so you have an excuse to bite them." That was just plain too Lincolnesque genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Thank you, Mr Booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 9, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2004 But it is still ludicrous to think that we would allow the Pacific fleet to be destroyed so we could have an excuse to fight a war. Just because it's ludicrous doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you look into the records of the ships destroyed most of them were our oldest ships. that's like letting someone punch your teeth out so you have an excuse to bite them. And it's exactly what happened. Stick your head in the sand if you like but it's not going to change the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Jew Posted October 10, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 66 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 We're also forgetting that Wake island was attacked the very next day. So if Pearl Harbor had been defended, Wake Island would still have been attacked. Either way, the Japanese offensive was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Stick your head in the sand if you like but it's not going to change the facts. and obviously the facts aren't going to change you opinions either So did they treat you well in jail yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 10, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2004 I'm not go to take the bait of your childish game Yod. If you can't look at the evidence of Pearl Harbor and see what happened, I truly feel sorry for you. I know your debate skills are limited but trying to bait me into a childish name calling match is low, even for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted October 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2004 I'm not go to take the bait of your childish game Yod. If you can't look at the evidence of Pearl Harbor and see what happened, I truly feel sorry for you. I know your debate skills are limited but trying to bait me into a childish name calling match is low, even for you. One of these days you might get something in politics right. Quoting John Toland is not going to cut it. He is a good author, but there is more info out there that shows that FDR knew something was up, but not totally aware of thee exact details. Unfortunately the military and the pentagon could not imagine a "Surprise Attack" of that magnitude. I do agree with the info they had, they should have been able to figure it out. America would have been just as mad if Japan had come over that horizon and found 1 battleship to sink. So for you to say we sacrified our battleship fleet to get into a war that we came one battle from losing is about as prepostorus as Badnarik ever becoming President. Well, maybe not that prepostorous. But close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2004 Preposterous or not it's the truth. Unfortunately the military and the pentagon could not imagine a "Surprise Attack" of that magnitude. I do agree with the info they had, they should have been able to figure it out. Not only could they imagine it, but they knew it was going to happen. Prior to the start of WWII only a few ships were allowed in harbor at the same time. Additionally the main naval base was not at Pearl Harbor, because moving ships that far forward left them open to attack. FDR willing put all his eggs in one basket so to speak against the advice of his generals and also moved the fleet headquarters to Pearl Harbor. FDR engineered Pearl Harbor because up until Pearl Harbor 70% of Americans wanted to stay out of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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