speaking in tounges

[OneLight]

Thank you OneLight for calling my attention to the fact that I have mis-spelled some names on this forum. I assure you it has not been "Purposely".

Luke 17:21 has the verse in future temse, "neither shall they say--.'' The fact remains, prior to Acts 2, the kingdom (church) was not present. It is evident that in vss 20,21 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Was the kingdom in them?

I agree that the Jews looked for a worldly kingdom and even Jesus' disciples had some problem with understanding the kingdom.

The kingdom reigns in the hearts of those who accept Christ Jesus, be it before or after Acts 1:1, as Jesus clearly stated. What you are focusing on is a future tense, but Jesus statement is present tense.

I understand the kingdon (church) was not established until Acts 2, not Acts 1.

Your understanding is off. Christ established the understanding way before Acts 1 or 2.

[webb]

Thank you OneLight for calling my attention to the fact that I have mis-spelled some names on this forum. I assure you it has not been "Purposely".

Luke 17:21 has the verse in future temse, "neither shall they say--.'' The fact remains, prior to Acts 2, the kingdom (church) was not present. It is evident that in vss 20,21 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Was the kingdom in them?

I agree that the Jews looked for a worldly kingdom and even Jesus' disciples had some problem with understanding the kingdom.

The kingdom reigns in the hearts of those who accept Christ Jesus, be it before or after Acts 1:1, as Jesus clearly stated. What you are focusing on is a future tense, but Jesus statement is present tense.

I understand the kingdon (church) was not established until Acts 2, not Acts 1.

Your understanding is off. Christ established the understanding way before Acts 1 or 2.

[webb]

We may be on the same page on this one in a sense.

[enoob57]

BUTERO:

Everything in this thread has been off topic for sometime. You could have a new thread to address whether the two witnesses are real people, and one for the horse pics. There is also the matter of the Kingdom of Heaven.

True....although I do believe a new thread would just be the old thread....right? I'm just wondering when the flying saucers will appear

Hi Enoob57

Thanks for callng attention to an error I made which I did not intend. I wrote: "I have no reason to believe that when one writes 'God bless' they mean it." What I intended was: ''I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT WHEN ONE WRITES GOD BLESS THEY DO NOT MEAN IT." I failed to write into the sentence "do not". It was a tragic error on my part.

w

well my comment was poking fun at ya... on how win freinds and influence enemies

[Leaf99]

Tongues is an interesting topic. I have heard people speaking in many tongues with the Word of God, usually English. The Bible clearly attributes great merit to speaking with the power of the Holy Spirit. I've heard some people speaking in a sort of mix I suppose is the best description? A glossalalia it's called. Lots of other religions have the same sort of utterances. I'm more skeptical of it in big groups only because the Bible warns against speaking in disorganized fashion, and other religions.

Biblically, there are lots of interesting circumstances in Acts where people spoke different languages while evangelizing. People speak very powerfully around times of conversion too! I haven't experienced anyone break out in Hebrew yet haha. Hopefully one day I will experience that gift! All gifts of the Holy Spirit are God given!

Edited December 29, 2012 by Leaf99

[Citizenship]

Tongues is an interesting topic. I have heard people speaking in many tongues with the Word of God, usually English. The Bible clearly attributes great merit to speaking with the power of the Holy Spirit. I've heard some people speaking in a sort of mix I suppose is the best description? A glossalalia it's called. Lots of other religions have the same sort of utterances.

Hi Leaf! Yes, it truly is interesting, and it is also interesting that you bring up the fact that some Christians "mix" tongues with plain english.

There are some people who claim that speaking in tongues is fake and satanic and to get their point across they claim that even heathen

witch doctors and so on also "speak in tongues" as though that even remotely settled the matter.

Let's take a look at what Paul wrote about how we know whether what comes out of our mouths is of the Holy Spirit or not:

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." 1 Cor 12:3

In my experience, when people mix tongues with plain english they are not cursing Jesus, but rather praising and worshiping him as Lord and King.

So perhaps they are switching very quickly back and forth between satanic utterances and utterances inspired by the Holy Spirit. But that leads to the question:

"Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?" James 3:11

Now obviously a Christian can say things that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit and I would even go as far as admitting that they can say things that are satanic, but not at the same time.

Many Christians today are making the same mistakes as Jesus disciples did when they caught someone doing something by the Spirit of God, but who they did not consider "one of us":

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." Mark 9:38

And what was Jesus response to this?

"Do not stop him, no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us."

Obviously, the words "in the next moment" has significance, or else they would not be there.

I'm more skeptical of it in big groups only because the Bible warns against speaking in disorganized fashion, and other religions.

This is an argument that is often used against churches that practice praying in tongues, but I think it is important to consider the context that prevailed during the time that the Bible made

this warning. At that time the problem of noisy, disorderly services would have been much worse. Anyone trying to lead a service or who recieved a message directed toward the congregation

would have to constantly raise his voice above the noisy din. Today we have microphones and other electronic devices that give us a means of enforcing order in a service that just wasn't possible back then.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Citizenship

[Citizenship]

You make good points Citizenship. I have noticed that when I pray in tongues, I will be led to give praise to God in English as well. I will pray in an unknown tongue, and then be led into a spirit of praise and worship, "Thank you Jesus," "Glory to God," "Hallelujah," etc. I won't be inspired to say things that are blasphemous.

Thanks Butero! Not only does practicing spiritual gifts effect what we say, it effects what we do. When King Saul sent his men to capture David so that he could kill him they failed to do so, and started prophesying instead:

"But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came upon Saul's men and they also prophesied.

Saul was told about it, and he sent more men, and they prophesied too. Saul sent men a third time, and they also prophesied.

Finally, he himself left for Ramah and went to the great cistern at Secu. And he asked, "Where are Samuel and David?" "Over in Naioth at Ramah," they said.

So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.

He stripped off his robes and also prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay that way all that day and night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" 1 Sam 19: 20-24.

Wow, talk about contageous behaviour!

[enoob57]

Tongues is an interesting topic. I have heard people speaking in many tongues with the Word of God, usually English. The Bible clearly attributes great merit to speaking with the power of the Holy Spirit. I've heard some people speaking in a sort of mix I suppose is the best description? A glossalalia it's called. Lots of other religions have the same sort of utterances.

Hi Leaf! Yes, it truly is interesting, and it is also interesting that you bring up the fact that some Christians "mix" tongues with plain english.

There are some people who claim that speaking in tongues is fake and satanic and to get their point across they claim that even heathen

witch doctors and so on also "speak in tongues" as though that even remotely settled the matter.

Let's take a look at what Paul wrote about how we know whether what comes out of our mouths is of the Holy Spirit or not:

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." 1 Cor 12:3

In my experience, when people mix tongues with plain english they are not cursing Jesus, but rather praising and worshiping him as Lord and King.

So perhaps they are switching very quickly back and forth between satanic utterances and utterances inspired by the Holy Spirit. But that leads to the question:

"Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?" James 3:11 this is suspect due to our understanding Paul gives in Rom 7-8! As I do agree

God keeps our redeemed being separate from the carnality of the flesh because His Spirit is directly with our spirit in the eternal seal... as 1 John tells us we

are always with sin now it is therefore the miracle of His keeping but we to fearfully work out our salvation to bring Him glory! Phil 2:12-13

Now obviously a Christian can say things that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit and I would even go as far as admitting that they can say things that are satanic, but not at the same time.

Many Christians today are making the same mistakes as Jesus disciples did when they caught someone doing something by the Spirit of God, but who they did not consider "one of us":

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." Mark 9:38

And what was Jesus response to this?

"Do not stop him, no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us."

Obviously, the words "in the next moment" has significance, or else they would not be there.

I'm more skeptical of it in big groups only because the Bible warns against speaking in disorganized fashion, and other religions.

This is an argument that is often used against churches that practice praying in tongues, but I think it is important to consider the context that prevailed during the time that the Bible made

this warning. At that time the problem of noisy, disorderly services would have been much worse. Anyone trying to lead a service or who recieved a message directed toward the congregation

would have to constantly raise his voice above the noisy din. Today we have microphones and other electronic devices that give us a means of enforcing order in a service that just wasn't possible back then.

If tongues are being practiced in a public arena without interpretation it is disobedience to God's Word!

1 Co 14:28-33

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another

who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all

may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not

the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Citizenship]

"Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?" James 3:11 this is suspect due to our understanding Paul gives in Rom 7-8! As I do agree

God keeps our redeemed being separate from the carnality of the flesh because His Spirit is directly with our spirit in the eternal seal... as 1 John tells us we

are always with sin now it is therefore the miracle of His keeping but we to fearfully work out our salvation to bring Him glory! Phil 2:12-13

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, other than that we are susceptable to carnality and sin? Is that your point?

I don't think that while being led by the Holy Spirit that it is possible to give ourselves over to carnality and sin.

If you think it is possible then that is yours to believe.

If tongues are being practiced in a public arena without interpretation it is disobedience to God's Word

Steven, the NT is not a updated version of the OT where everything written in the epistles are to be considered laws.

If it was then you had better make sure that all the women in your church wear veils and so on. Paul's letter to the Corinthians

was addressed to that Church and what he wrote to them were his recommendations as to how they were to tackle the problems

that existed at that time. The Corrinthian church came under the administration of Paul and his assessment of them was that

they were carnal and in serious need of developing their understanding - which does not come from praying in tongues.

The judgement of whether a modern church is carnal or not is up to the person administering that church, not Paul, nor you, or

anyone else.

Let me ask you someting. When your church gets together, do they practice speaking in tongues, and when they do is there

always an interpretation?

[enoob57]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, other than that we are susceptable to carnality and sin? Is that your point?

I don't think that while being led by the Holy Spirit that it is possible to give ourselves over to carnality and sin.

If you think it is possible then that is yours to believe.

We are to constantly to examine the spirits

1 Jn 4:1-3

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets

have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ

has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh

is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

NKJV

to really get the fullness here 'The Word became flesh' one must read and absorb all of John's writings for it is in

summation Christ The Living Word is now written solely so to lead us into all Godliness and personal relationship

with The One It is written about Christ Jesus... Now if God has given us the responsibility to verify His Spirit within

as that which influences us... then your not going to dump it back on Him by disregarding His Word here! That is why

God says this

Php 2:12-13

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my

absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

NKJV

and this working out is defined here

2 Ti 2:15

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

NKJV

because by The Scripture we are complete

2 Ti 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction

in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

NKJV

My Faith is made objective by His Word and I am able to objectively lead you to the same truth... but if you prefer that outside

of His Word it is your ruin...

Steven, the NT is not a updated version of the OT where everything written in the epistles are to be considered laws.

.

God clearly tells us the purpose of Scriptures above but so you know The O.T. is for our use by the wisdom of example!

Php 3:17-20

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame - who set their mind on earthly things.

NKJV

Jas 5:9-11

9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience.

NKJV

1 Pe 2:21-24

21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

22 "Who committed no sin,

Nor was deceit found in His mouth";

23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;

NKJV

2 Pe 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

NKJV

They are given to us so that we are without excuse! We know God by consuming and doing of God's Word...

The judgment of whether a modern church is carnal or not is up to the person administering that church, not Paul, nor you, or

anyone else.

Let me ask you something. When your church gets together, do they practice speaking in tongues, and when they do is there

always an interpretation?

The people I worship with do not practice tongues as we cannot verify the s/Spirit? in which they come... and we believe this to

be a must in obedience to His Word...

Mt 12:36-37

36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

NKJV

Love, Steven