gdemoss Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The age of innocence lasted less than a day. How can that be considered a dispensation? Adam never walked with God in the cool of the day in the garden, he was thrown out the very first day. At the end of the day man was instructed to go multiply and have dominion over the earth. They succeeded in multiplying but failed in dominion. God flooded the earth as a result of that failure. Dispensationalism lacks credibility in many areas and leads to error in teaching. Gary Can you show me where it lasted less than one day? I covered that in post #10 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 365 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 6 Joined: 03/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2012 The age of innocence lasted less than a day. How can that be considered a dispensation? Adam never walked with God in the cool of the day in the garden, he was thrown out the very first day. At the end of the day man was instructed to go multiply and have dominion over the earth. They succeeded in multiplying but failed in dominion. God flooded the earth as a result of that failure. Dispensationalism lacks credibility in many areas and leads to error in teaching. Gary Gary, my brother, could you cited scripture for your 'one day paradise' hypothesis. Gladly Monarchy, it isn't something that can be understood through a simple 'proof text' though, it must be seen within the context as it develops in the first three chapters of Genesis. Here is a post I did at another forum on the topic After having a conversation about the events that took place in the garden of Eden and the first three chapters of Genesis, I was led to believe that the fall of man happened on day 6 of creation before God saw all that he had made and declared that it was very good. It is all linked into what God said and to whom he said it. Beginning in Chapter one we find: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 26 The decision to make man and give him dominion. 27 The finished creation of man both male and female. 28 The blessing to multiply, fill and subdue the earth. Chapter 2 begins with verse 4 to say: 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This obviously is part of verse 27 from Chapter 1. As 26 is the decision to make man and 27 has the finished product of both Adam and Eve. The rest of chapter 2 must fit into this time frame then as well. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. At this point in the day God has made both Adam and Eve and given them of every tree in the garden to eat. And they were naked and not ashamed. Chapter 3 explains for us that they didn't originally know that they were naked as God asked Adam "Who told thee thou wast naked?". and so we can comfortably say that chapter 2 fits inside of chapter 1 verse 27. Chapter 3: The fall. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. It isn't until after the fall that God gives the herb of the field to Adam as food. Keeping this in mind lets return to chapter one to see where it all fits into creation week. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And we see that the addition of herb bearing seed is added after the blessing they were given to be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth with dominion. So the fall has to be before verse 28 concluding that the fall happened on day 6 before the close of the day where God said: 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. So it was after the fall and sin and death had entered into the world that God saw everything he had made and it was very good. This seems wrong to me in so many ways but I can't seem to follow the logic of the scriptures otherwise. It seems God set everything into motion and has been busy perfecting his 'very good' creation by defining and destroying evil as he goes. God is light, there is no darkness in him at all. But that doesn't mean that evil was not part of his plan to refine creation for his son Jesus to rule and reign over eternally. In Jesus Name, Gary Well put together. I never really tried to line it up in that fashion I figured because there was no mention of the day passing that it was on the sixth day Adam both male and female fell. Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2012 I also agree that all God did was/is good. However I do to wonder. . . 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Based on this verse, I wonder if Genesis 1 is a recap of what happened, some time after the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were joined in marriage they had no parents to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I also agree that all God did was/is good. However I do to wonder. . . 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Based on this verse, I wonder if Genesis 1 is a recap of what happened, some time after the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were joined in marriage they had no parents to leave. Hi Joi, thanks for the question. Always necessary to have an answer that fits within the understanding of the doctrine presented. I understand the verse to be either a prophetic statement from Adam or a statement inserted by Moses to explain how it all began and why. I see no reason to believe Genesis 1 to be a recap. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 It's all good, Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The age of innocence lasted less than a day. How can that be considered a dispensation? Adam never walked with God in the cool of the day in the garden, he was thrown out the very first day. At the end of the day man was instructed to go multiply and have dominion over the earth. They succeeded in multiplying but failed in dominion. God flooded the earth as a result of that failure. Dispensationalism lacks credibility in many areas and leads to error in teaching. Gary Can you show me where it lasted less than one day? I covered that in post #10 Gary If God created man on the sixth day and at the end of that day every thing seemed good to him. the sixth day is over and he rested on the Sabbath after all his work. That seems to put it at least two days maybe three but not one. I read # 10 did not see where God made man on day 6 man sinned on day 6 and God kicked them out of the garden then said his creation was good so he rested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The age of innocence lasted less than a day. How can that be considered a dispensation? Adam never walked with God in the cool of the day in the garden, he was thrown out the very first day. At the end of the day man was instructed to go multiply and have dominion over the earth. They succeeded in multiplying but failed in dominion. God flooded the earth as a result of that failure. Dispensationalism lacks credibility in many areas and leads to error in teaching. Gary Can you show me where it lasted less than one day? I covered that in post #10 Gary If God created man on the sixth day and at the end of that day every thing seemed good to him. the sixth day is over and he rested on the Sabbath after all his work. That seems to put it at least two days maybe three but not one. I read # 10 did not see where God made man on day 6 man sinned on day 6 and God kicked them out of the garden then said his creation was good so he rested I understand. You cannot see it. I present, but that is all I can do. Genesis 1 - On day six God explicitly states that he had given them (man, both male and female) both herb of the field and fruit of the trees to eat and sent them out into the world to have dominion just before saying everything was good. Genesis 2 - After creating Adam but before creating Eve, God gives the fruit of the trees to Adam as food. Genesis 3 - After the fall of man, God gives the herb of the field to eat. The Genesis 1 account is clear. Therefore, Chapter 2 and 3 must an extended account of what happened on day six, prior to God saying everything was very good and day seven where he rested from all his works. I have yet to see anyone be able to explain why these things are said this way in a reasonable alternative to what I have presented. Anything I have heard requires additions to scripture. The most amazing thing of it all is just how much information is packed within those 3 chapters that prophetically reveals what will come to pass thousands of years later. God is simply amazing. I do understand if you cannot see it though. I too have had much difficulty in the past seeing that which is right in front of me in black ink upon a white page. May the Lord lead. In Jesus Name, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 I also agree that all God did was/is good. However I do to wonder. . . 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Based on this verse, I wonder if Genesis 1 is a recap of what happened, some time after the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were joined in marriage they had no parents to leave. Hi Joi, thanks for the question. Always necessary to have an answer that fits within the understanding of the doctrine presented. I understand the verse to be either a prophetic statement from Adam or a statement inserted by Moses to explain how it all began and why. I see no reason to believe Genesis 1 to be a recap. Gary ok let us assume this is prophetic, who then was writing the narrative found in Genesis 1? I am hard pressed to think Adam was writing it, and I do not think God was so then who? Moses was not yet born at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I also agree that all God did was/is good. However I do to wonder. . . 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Based on this verse, I wonder if Genesis 1 is a recap of what happened, some time after the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were joined in marriage they had no parents to leave. Hi Joi, thanks for the question. Always necessary to have an answer that fits within the understanding of the doctrine presented. I understand the verse to be either a prophetic statement from Adam or a statement inserted by Moses to explain how it all began and why. I see no reason to believe Genesis 1 to be a recap. Gary ok let us assume this is prophetic, who then was writing the narrative found in Genesis 1? I am hard pressed to think Adam was writing it, and I do not think God was so then who? Moses was not yet born at this time. Writing something from a historical perspective can include a prophetic statement as made by the one who is being written of. I don't understand the issue here. Why couldn't Moses be writing down that which he was shown as an accurate record of what transpired? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 365 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 6 Joined: 03/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 I also agree that all God did was/is good. However I do to wonder. . . 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Based on this verse, I wonder if Genesis 1 is a recap of what happened, some time after the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were joined in marriage they had no parents to leave. Eve wasnt named Eve by the male until after theyd eaten the fruit; both the male and female are Adam, which is important and overlooked by pretty much everyone. Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." Adam is the son of God so indeed they had parentage to leave. Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." Moses wrote the pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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