Joyce Meyer

[Sevenseas]

but i'm afraid that you will feel their wrath. wish you well...God bless

I fear God.

[Sevenseas]

Some facts on Joyce Meyer's erroneous teaching:

Her now-unavailable taped message, “What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” Meyer continued to teach the “Born-Again Jesus” doctrine. In this message, Meyer claims to have received the Baptism of the Spirit and sometime afterward felt a strange “flipping and turning” insider her body (stomach). She claimed that this experience led to a greater understanding of salvation and a greater revelation of Jesus’ “spirit death” in hell. Meyer, like many others in the Charismatic movement, believes that Jesus suffered in hell under the power of demons.

Joyce Meyer Teaches Prosperity Doctrine (Health, Wealth, and Prosperity)

This is a doctrinal position that teaches God’s desire is to make everyone healthy, wealthy, and rich. If a person does not obtain that – it must be something wrong with their faith in God. This is very popular on the TBN network and should be rejected according to Scripture. For instance, Jesus was not wealthy, His disciples died for their commitment to Christ, and many missionaries suffered poverty and died for their faith in Christ. Therefore, we must reject this idea of healthy and happy doctrine.

Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich.

Everything she has came from Him: the $10 million corporate jet, her husband’s $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children — all blessings, she says, straight from the hand of God.

It’s been an amazing run, nothing short of a miracle, says Meyer, a one-time bookkeeper who heads one of the world’s largest television ministries. Her Life in the Word organization expects to take in $95 million this year.

Just look around, she told reporters last month from behind her desk on the third floor of the ministry’s corporate offices in Jefferson County.

“Here I am, an ex-housewife from Fenton, with a 12th-grade education,” she said. “How could anybody look at this and see anything other than God?“

So does that mean that anyone who is not rich is not blessed by God? Does that mean that Christians in third world countries are cursed by God?

Are we all cursed if we don't have a private jet? Joyce, you are living high on the hard earned money of those who send it into your

ministry....Jesus did not die so that you could have flashy clothes and tell us that He is your credit card

Here is another comment made by Joyce concerning her millions in personal wealth:

“If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,” Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. “I’m living now in my reward.”

Be careful Joyce, those words may very be true. This life, here and now, may very well be your reward.

Like others in the Word-Faith camp who are uneducated, untrained and unskilled in doctrine and systematic theology, Meyer is none too eager to openly discuss the Christian faith with one who has worked hard to rightly divide the Word of Truth. However, following the initial radio broadcast, Matzat did have the opportunity to dialogue with Meyer and her husband, Dave. Matzat, a friend of Dave’s family, recalled the meeting:

“We had a very nice chat. I told them exactly what I just said here. I said, ‘You were distorting the doctrine of justification.’ I said, ‘What your doctrine will lead to is what Ken Copeland teaches, that Jesus had to be born again in hell. Because He’s simply a man dying for our sins.’ She did not reject what Ken Copeland teaches. She simply told me, ‘I am not going to change what I teach.’”

4

Meyer’s concept of sinless perfection is the most disturbing element to Matzat. Meyer has claimed,

“Now whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, whether you want to operate on it or not, you are made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. Most people who go to denominational churches never ever hear that! They never hear it! Never! All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I, a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor. I am not miserable. And I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell! That is what I were [sic] and if I still was, then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”

5

Meyer may be able to say she is not poor and not miserable. First John 1:8, however, would preclude the rest of her comments about not being a sinner. Paul thought himself to be the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). As Christians we are, after all, saved sinners.

link: http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm (copy paste...site is The Preacher who Doesn't Tell it Like it is)

Moreover, when one examines the now obsolete tape, divine intervention and direct revelation are stated as the source of her message:

“The Bible can’t even find any way to explain this. Not really. That’s why you’ve got to get it by revelation. There are no

words

to explain what I’m telling you. I’ve got to just trust God that He’s putting it into your spirit like He put it into mine.”

7

Really Joyce? The Bible, the revealed word of God to human kind has no way to explain your personal revelation?

well that's probably true............

Read the Bible and compare it to what Joyce teaches....NOT the same. Doctrine is not the strong point of WOF'ers,

and they will usually scoff and declare divine inspiration to support their erroneous teaching

I have nothing personal against her...I do, however, have something against deception and misrepresentation of the Truth

[Sevenseas]

JESUS IN HELL?

The Charisma article indicates that another of Meyer’s critics, apologist Hank Hanegraaff, cited her booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make.⁸ Hanegraaff faulted Meyer for teaching that Jesus was born again in hell. Meyer responded by stating that she does not believe and has never taught that particular doctrine.

Whether Hanegraaff ever used the exact words, “Jesus was born again in hell” or if the Charisma writer simply put those words in the Southern California apologist’s mouth in an attempt to build a “straw man” is not clear. What is clear, however, in spite of Meyer’s denials, is that in the fourth chapter of her booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she:

• Teaches a born again Jesus.

9

• Teaches that hell, not the cross, is where salvation was purchased.

10

She not only delineates and defines the heresy but she blatantly defends it.

You can find this on the same site as the one I inserted above

It is not wrong to be a Berean. It is wrong to attack those who offer scripture as proof of erroneous teaching

[LisaMarie savedbygrace]

JESUS IN HELL?

The Charisma article indicates that another of Meyer’s critics, apologist Hank Hanegraaff, cited her booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make.⁸ Hanegraaff faulted Meyer for teaching that Jesus was born again in hell. Meyer responded by stating that she does not believe and has never taught that particular doctrine.

Whether Hanegraaff ever used the exact words, “Jesus was born again in hell” or if the Charisma writer simply put those words in the Southern California apologist’s mouth in an attempt to build a “straw man” is not clear. What is clear, however, in spite of Meyer’s denials, is that in the fourth chapter of her booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she:

• Teaches a born again Jesus.

9

• Teaches that hell, not the cross, is where salvation was purchased.

10

She not only delineates and defines the heresy but she blatantly defends it.

You can find this on the same site as the one I inserted above

It is not wrong to be a Berean. It is wrong to attack those who offer scripture as proof of erroneous teaching

I have this booklet... and i don't see that anywhere in this.... It does say "Jesus went to hell for you.He died for you. He paid for your sins.God was faithful to Jesus, God did what He told Jesus He would do.When the bill was paid and all our debt completely cancelled, The father raised Him from the dead.

But until that happened He was alone for 3 days satisfying the courts of justice and conquering the hosts of hell. He (Jesus) took the keys of hell and death."

I am not seeing where she claims Jesus was born again in hell.. If anything she explains why He went to hell.. and what He did there..

[Sevenseas]

Hey ~ apparently this has been revised and the tape not around any more because of the controversy surrounding those remarks

Or, perhaps the reader is not sure exactly what the doctrine concerning Jesus in hell is and so does not know if what Joyce

says is right or wrong.

I guess someone could then say well maybe she never said that...even if you decide that could be, and quite honestly I imagine

it could, there is enough other false teaching that should give one pause as to whether or not she is the best Bible teacher out there

I guess you could check out that website yourself and read some of her remarks and interviews. There is nothing wrong with

making sure that what a person teaches is actually biblical

[Sevenseas]

In her 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she teaches a hallmark doctrine of Faith theology, namely, that Christ had to suffer in hell to atone for our sins and be born again:

During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead ¾ the first born-again man.[6]

Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete And Thorough Understanding Of What It Means To Be Born Again (Tulsa: Harrison House, 1991), 35-36 (emphasis in original). The 1996 version of this booklet contains slightly different wording, but essentially the same message:

“Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place….God rose up from His throne and said to the demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go.” See Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete and Thorough Understanding of What it Means to be Born Again (Tulsa: Harrison House, 1996, 5^th printing), 41-43.

You can read there the teaching that Jesus had to suffer more in hell to complete salvation but that is not so. That is not what the Bible states.

Jesus work on the cross was sufficent...he said "It is finished" not "Now I'll go battle in hell to complete this salvation for mankind"

Copeland's teaching on this this subject is even worse.

I'll just mention again that some of what Joyce says is inspirational and quite practical...I can listen to her (been a long time tho) and some

of what she says away....BUT....when someone teaches error, then it's time to say wait a minute

He was alone for 3 days satisfying the courts of justice and conquering the hosts of hell. He (Jesus) took the keys of hell and death."

what does that mean? Nowhere is it recorded that Jesus did battle with demons or the devil. When the devil tempted Jesus

in the wilderness, Jesus used only "It is written" to refute the devil and disallow the devil any power over him. It's not

power struggle....it's a truth struggle. It's the word...not some dynamic battle in hell

[LisaMarie savedbygrace]

well the way i see it is like this.... No one.. not even Joyce has everything 100% correct.. and speaking from my own experience. i have found that my words get misunderstood and taken out of context alot.. I mean in my head it sounds perfectly understandable but the way some ppl perceive it is different... so Im sure anyone can easily take anything out of context...

Yes, I understand fully the need to make sure who we listen to is legit.. and in my opinion Joyce has eased some of my insecurities and alot of my past hurts by just explaining her life story.. granted it's not all biblical talk but more down to earth she makes it easy for you to relate to her.. sometimes it's more helpful to hear of someone's background to know where they came from than to be beaten over the head with the Bible. i want to know.. how someone got through when they couldn't hear from God, how they got up everyday even when they wanted to stay in bed and never leave the house.., I want to know how after yrs of being mentally and verbally abused does one look in the mirror and actually begin to love yourself in a balanced way.... She taught me that... so for that i thank God for that..

Now as far as ppl critizing, remarking. whatever.. everyone will have an opinion.. what it comes down to is what God thinks.. I could care less what Joe Smith down the street has to say.. or some reporter.. People talk and most talk trash.. they see someone doing great things and automatically find fault cuz their life doesn't measure up .. well I wonder why...

I don't have all the answers, im not rich (yet) but i believe God knows what i can handle and what i can't.. He has seen how she uses her money and how she dealt when she had barely any.. so if she is lying that is solely between her and God.. I only know how she helped me get closer to God.. and it's God's opinion of my life that matters to me most.. I will not be accounted for anyone else's life but my own.. So I really could care less with any so called organization has to say about anyone.. I have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit running through me .. and it's my job to be a blessing.. that's all i was trying to do.. and sadly this thread went into a direction that it never needed to go in.. Just my opinion

[Guest man]

Consider the following.

2 Corinthians 11

³ But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

⁴ For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

¹² But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.

¹³ For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.

[Guest man]

I guess you could check out that website yourself and read some of her remarks and interviews. There is nothing wrong with

making sure that what a person teaches is actually biblical

Sometimes when the truth is in conflict with ones beliefs, it is a hard pill to swallow.

All the information is out there. A simple desire for the truth is all that's needed in order to find it.

[Guest man]

man

Would you mind pointing this out in the Word?

Concerning:

What I picked up was Joyce saying..................... He was no longer the son of God in hell................ and ..........................He was born again In Hell................

What do you mean? There is no direct scripture that says that...........

No point in defending Joyce anymore.

Your defense is actually a witness against her teachings. There's no need to embellish where the Gospel is concerned. The Word actually warns against such things. And it's written in simple english.