New revelations????

[firestormx]

Now time for my question, so the "new revelation" appoints to outside scripture?

i am not sure I understand what your asking. But any and all true revelations, regardless of how they come would have to point to and glorify Christ.

[Jayyycuuup]

Now time for my question, so the "new revelation" appoints to outside scripture?

i am not sure I understand what your asking. But any and all true revelations, regardless of how they come would have to point to and glorify Christ.

Sorry, haha sometimes I can be confusing when trying to get my point across. What I mean by that is, I am assuming what makes them "new" is that it is not known; if it is not known then it isn't found in the bible. If it is found or supported in the bible then on what basis makes it new? I both believe and know that God gives us revelations of what is to come and insights but what makes it new?

[firestormx]

Now time for my question, so the "new revelation" appoints to outside scripture?

i am not sure I understand what your asking. But any and all true revelations, regardless of how they come would have to point to and glorify Christ.

Sorry, haha sometimes I can be confusing when trying to get my point across. What I mean by that is, I am assuming what makes them "new" is that it is not known; if it is not known then it isn't found in the bible. If it is found or supported in the bible then on what basis makes it new? I both believe and know that God gives us revelations of what is to come and insights but what makes it new?

New = previously unknown

Just because something is new to me doesn't mean it is to you. After all, every New revelation that was given in scripture was already known by God, so technicly nothing is new if you want to take it that far. I don't think just because something is old to someone else doesn't mean it's not new to others. Take Salvation for example. It may be old news to me and you. Living our life in christ may be old school for me and you, but to the just saved it is new. With revelation I don't think it's any different. I think it's very dangerous to say there is absolutly no new revelations. It sweeps a lot under the rug. Ephesians 1:17 (NAS) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I honestly believe that when each of us recieves a revelation on something for the first time. Then it is a new revelation for us. It's no different for dreams or visions or prophecy.

If everything we needed to know was already right there. If we could on our own so easily understand everything, then why did paul pray this verse?

[Bob Carabbio]

"1. What is your understanding of No New Revelations or No New Knowledge?"

The "Christ life" is a CONSTANT communion between the Christian and the Holy Spirit, and "Revelation" at one level or another is continuous.

Luther's realization that "The just by his FAITH shall live" was a NEW revelation (in practical terms to a largely DEAD institutional church that was teaching all sorts of other stuff, and deep in superstition, and REJECTED Luther's input in protection of their "Vested Interests". But of course it wasn't "NEW KNOWLEDGE" (since it had been in the Bible all along, and had simply been forgotten by the Visible Church of the time.)

Bottom line: EVERYTHING that folks say that the Spirit told 'em HAS GOT TO BE checked out against the Written Word, and in the mouths of several confirming ministries - because it it doesn't "Square" then it's in all likelihood FALSE teaching.

NOTE: it MAY NOT "Square" with Denominational or traditional beliefs. a good demonstration of this was the Pentecostal revival in 1900. The Visible church had "Written off" 1 Cor 12,13,14 as something that had "gone away" with the last Apostle (or the finishing of the Canon - etc.). But THERE IT WAS big as life and twice as LOUD!!!

It wasn't "NEW KNOWLEDGE" - only the restoration of very OLD Knowledge that had been forgotten.

2. How does this affect things like dreams and visions and the gift of prophecy?

1 Thess 5:

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

19 Quench not the Spirit.

20 Despise not prophesyings.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

There are MANY "spirits" that will try to "give you information", and lots of 'em aren't from God. They can be VERY PERSUASIVE. knowing what the Word says is key. If you DON'T bother reading the WORD - you're "Fair game" for deception.

3. The apostles were the foundation, Christ the cornerstone. But if there is No new revelations, how do the walls and roof get built?

Line upon line, and precept upon precept as God RESTORES the Visible Church - until it looks like Ephesians 4:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect [Corporate] man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The Visible Church in 2012 is essentially a vast collection of disconnected "Building blocks" scattered across the earth defending their own little "Fifedoms", and battling over their "Private interpretations" of what the Word says. That's a "NORMAL state for the church at this stage of its infancy - the the word "Perfect" in V13 means "Mature". HUMAN wisdom will NEVER "Bring it together", but God through the power of the Holy Spirit will, and is as the plan unfolds down to the end of the age.

The LAST thing we'd want in 2012 would be a UNITED immature, and ignorant visible church - with political power. The middle ages should show us why.

[firestormx]

The LAST thing we'd want in 2012 would be a UNITED immature, and ignorant visible church - with political power. The middle ages should show us why.

Thank you for your post. I really enjoyed reading it. Reading your response got me to think of a question that I had not thought about up till now. So, I'll ask.

Is there a biblical differance between a New Revelation and a Revelation?

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh - I do believe we are talking past each other.

I don't have time to go through your responses, but if I may give an example?

A man has a dream/vision that includes seeing Christians with the armor of God. In this, he sees the Christians also given a cloak - the cloak of humility. This was their only defense against arrows of pride being shot at their backs. Those without the cloak of humility were hit from behind and infected with the arrow, but they didn't know it. Slowly, the poison of pride took it's effect, and the Christian would begin shedding his armor, relying on his own strength to fight the battle. Thus exposed, they were taken down via other attacks.

Now, on can argue that this vision was unScriptural, for Scripture never speaks of such a thing. However, can you determine anything in the application of this cloak that is contrary to what is written in Scripture concerning pride and concerning humility?

See this is not what is in dispute. This kind of thing is not what biblical "revelation" is about. Part of the problem again, is with how we are defining terms. "Revelation" is NOT spiritual insight, visions, that kind of thing. Revelation, biblically speaking refers to what we can know about God, His character and operations. The Bible is God's self-revelation, self-disclosure about who He is, His attributes, and his operations.

It seems the word "revelation" is being used to simply describe spiritual knowledge and insight that comes from visions, dreams or whatever, but that is simply not what we mean when the term "revelation" is used properly.

[Guest shiloh357]

What does this verse mean?

Ephesians 1:17 NAS

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

That's talking about fathoming the deep things of God thus having a knowledge of Him. Note that in this verse it is something that is given by God. Revelation pertains to what we can know about God, that had to be revealed to man by God.

[nebula]

What does this verse mean?

Ephesians 1:17 NAS

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

That's talking about fathoming the deep things of God thus having a knowledge of Him. Note that in this verse it is something that is given by God. Revelation pertains to what we can know about God, that had to be revealed to man by God.

Can we still be given a spirit of revelation? Or should I draw a pencil line through that part of the verse?

[Guest shiloh357]

What does this verse mean?

Ephesians 1:17 NAS

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

That's talking about fathoming the deep things of God thus having a knowledge of Him. Note that in this verse it is something that is given by God. Revelation pertains to what we can know about God, that had to be revealed to man by God.

Or should I draw a pencil line through that part of the verse?

Of course, not. Paul is talking about being given the spiritual capacity of a deeper apprehension of the revelation of God, or as Paul puts it, "in the knowledge of Him."

The problem with how "revelation" is used today is that people are using revelation when they should be using the term "illumination" pertaining to the spiritual insights they gain.

[nebula]

I have friends on Facebook testifying of God revealing Himself to them through their circumstances. How is that different?

Are they claiming that God is revealing stuff about Himself that is not contained in Scripture? If so, that is a major red flag, there.

Anytime someone shares something new about God's love, I take this as a revelation. Why? Because with all the words written in Scripture, we are still so clueless about it. The evidence is in how we Christians treat each other and how we do or do not relate to God. As many times as I've read and studied the Bible, I still struggle with depression. If "the Canon" is enough, that shouldn't happen. Goodness, it was revealed/enlightened/whatever-word-you-want-to-call-it to me that the image/perception of God we in our society have looks more like Zeus than the LORD through one or two members of this Board. (That may not be revelation to you, but it was to me - in fact, I would consider "revelation" anything that helps me see and understand what my "image" of God is supposed to look like. Obviously, by just reading the Scriptures, I am not getting it.)

When you read Revelation, don't you get a sense of finality?

No.

When you see that God's plan is come to fruition and is complete, there is no sense of finality in that?

Seeing the end of God's plan is not seeing the finality of God's character.

but again, what Scripture shows us that God brought an end to revealing anything about Himself with "the Canon". (For that matter, what is with calling the Bible "the Canon" anyway? Did the Hebrews of old have such a view on Scripture?)

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