gdemoss Posted December 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Please note what is being said in the letter written by John. The whole letter must be taken into account in order to understand it's parts. John's letter is a masterful defense on the person of Jesus Christ and the gospel truth. In the beginning of the letter we find the 'message' written and given with the reason for the letter as it is written to the 'little children' being that they don't continue in sin. 1 John 1 contains the opening with the gospel message of reconciliation between the Father and his children through the blood of his Son. John continues on throughout the letter explaining the finer points of salvation and life with God as a quickened believer in Christ. Upon establishing the truth with those he refers to as little children, young men and fathers, John wraps up his epistle with this verse in question that speaks about the difference between sin unto death and sin not unto death. Death is and always has been separation of fellowship between God and man. According to the text one is to be 'seeing' his brother sin a sin and able to determine by sight if the sin in one unto death or not. As we go back through the entire epistle understanding what has been relayed unto the readers about sin, the difference between those who have fellowship with the Father and those who do not is directly related to willful sin versus accidental/unintentional and that of weakness. When seen in the context of the entire NT, it bears much witness that this would be the case in point. With all these warnings, John ends his epistle by stating that he has described within the letter the true Jesus Christ who is the Son of the Living God and warns us not to worship idols. In the end we simply understand that Jesus is the light of the world and those who walk in the light have fellowship with him and truly the fellowship is with the Father but living in a sinful world in bodies of flesh tainted with sin, a brother or sister might be seen sinning a sin that doesn't lead to complete separation from God by walking in darkness continuously which would be understood by sight and therefore we ought to know who to pray for and who not to in such cases. How does sin lead unto death? According to Jesus it is in not taking heed to how we hear. James as a second witness says it is through not being a doer of the word but a hearer only. And in the mouth of our third witness, John, we hear that they who are born of God keep themselves and the wicked one touches them not. Can a man take fire into his bosom and not be burned? Don't play with fire but enjoy fellowship with God by continuously walking in the light he has provided for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 20, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2012 What is the 'sin that leads to death' in 1 John 5:16? John 3:16-18 (NIV) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. No other sin is outside the scope of salvation. No need to pray about it. Remember also this is the Apostle who wrote... 1 John 2:1 (NIV) 1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. The one sin God will not forgive is unbelief in the Son who sacrificed all to become a man and die in our place who rose on the third day that we might have eternal life with him. I am also convinced this is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which will not be forgiven (since the Holy Spirit is the ultimate Testifier of the Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 20, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2012 I shall offer the following syllogism: Major premise: God will forgive every confessed sin--I Jn.1:7-9 Minor premise: But, there is a sin not forgiven--I Jn.5:15,16 Conclusion: Thus, the sin unto death is the sin not confessed Its my understanding that the word "confess" in this context is generic and would certainly include repentance and a turning away from the sin. A flippant confession is surely not the subject of the context. enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I shall offer the following syllogism: Major premise: God will forgive every confessed sin--I Jn.1:7-9 Minor premise: But, there is a sin not forgiven--I Jn.5:15,16 Conclusion: Thus, the sin unto death is the sin not confessed Its my understanding that the word "confess" in this context is generic and would certainly include repentance and a turning away from the sin. A flippant confession is surely not the subject of the context. enjoy The problem there is that if an unconfessed sin is the sin unto death, it requires one to remember every sin ever committed. Confessing sin is for us, not for God. In 1 John 1:9 confession of sin is for the cleansing of our coscience, not our heart. Confession of sin is not salvific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hi Sholoh You wrote: "CONFESSION OF SIN IS NOT SALVIFIC". Yet I Jn.1:8-10 reads: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." What could be more "SALVIFIC''? You wrote: ''CONFESSION OF SIN IS FOR US, NOT FOR GOD." But of course, God has no sin. enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderJ Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 195 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1993 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hi Sholoh You wrote: "CONFESSION OF SIN IS NOT SALVIFIC". Yet I Jn.1:8-10 reads: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." What could be more "SALVIFIC''? You wrote: ''CONFESSION OF SIN IS FOR US, NOT FOR GOD." But of course, God has no sin. enjoy The verse which you quote from John speaks of maintaining positive fellowship in the Father-Son relationship between the believer and God. It is not about salvation from hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderJ Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 195 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1993 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I believe that is is also necesarry to point out that believing in of itself does not save us from Hell. God saves us; believing is simply a tool by which we can access God's salvation. That's why Paul says that we are saved "by grace" and "through faith" in Ephesians. Faith in and of itself does not save; God saves. This can be summarized in the following sentence: "The farmer leads the pig to the market with a rope". Who leads the Pig? The farmer. And what is the tool that he uses to lead the Pig? The rope. Faith is like the rope. The farmer is like God. The rope doesn't lead the pig to the market; the farmer does. In the same way, Faith in and of itself does not save; God does. When certain men in the Bible (like James, for instance) say that we are saved by faith, they do not mean that faith has intrinsic salvific power; rather, that without faith one cannot be saved. Without the rope the farmer cannot lead the pig to market. This doesn't change the fact that it is still the farmer who leads the pig and not the rope. Faith only saves us in this sense, as a tool. We can say (metaphorically) when we blow a tire on the highway that "the spare saved me from having to call a tow truck". We don't mean that the spare hopped out of the trunk and replaced the blown tire on its own; we simply mean that without the spare we could not have done anything except call the tow truck. Edited December 21, 2012 by AlexanderJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 You wrote: "CONFESSION OF SIN IS NOT SALVIFIC". Yet I Jn.1:8-10 reads: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." What could be more "SALVIFIC''? You're confusing issues. Confession of sin pertains to maintaining fellowship with God. We do not confess sins in order to remain saved. Confession of sin is what we as Christians do. Confession of sin does not "re-save" us after we sin. It is not talking about cleansing from sin, but from unrighteousness. In other words, it cleanses our conscience from that which hinders our ongoing fellowship with God. Confession of sin is about removing guilt, shame and condemnation. You wrote: ''CONFESSION OF SIN IS FOR US, NOT FOR GOD." But of course, God has no sin. The point is that confession of sin is not to satisfy God's justice (as that was satisfied at the cross) it is free us from shame and guilt when we do sin. It impedes the ability of the enemy to put us under condemnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Fellowship with God and salvation go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. Your either Gods friend or his enemy. He has fellowship with his friends not his enemies. In the end, his friends are saved from eternal judgement not his enemies. 1 John 1 contains the 'message'. The good news that God has made a way for man and God to be united in fellowship that is eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2012 Alex wrote: ''CONFESSION OF SIN PERTAINS TO MAINTAINING FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD. WE DO NOT CONFESSS SINS IN ORDER TO REMAIN SAVED." Keep in mind we are discussing I Jn.1:7-10. John was, of course writing to Christians. John said: "if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Question: If the one to whom John writes does not confess his sin, will he enter heaven? Question: If the one to whom John writes does not confess his sin, and unconfessed sin remains unforgiven, will one with unforgiven sins (because not confessed) go to heaven? Question: If the one to whom John writes does not confess his sin, he is not cleansed from "unrighteousness". Will one not cleansed from unrighteousness enter heaven? Question: If as you so correctly point out ''CONFESSION OF SIN PERTAINS TO MAINTAINING FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD" then will the one to whom John writes who does not confess his sins and therefore has no longer fellowship with God enter heaven? Read Isa.59:1,2 for the condition of any whose sins separate him from God. It appears I will have very little if any time to reappear on this forum for several days. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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