JohnS Posted October 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted October 30, 2004 KJV - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. NKJV - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. NASB - We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. NRSV - We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them. NIV - We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. ESV - We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. YLT - We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him; I just wondered if any of the Bible scholars out there had any comments on this verse. So which is it? Do we keep ourselves or does God keep us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2004 God is keeping us! John 10 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. We are kept in the hand of God. Jesus died so that he could keep us! isn't that the greaest thing? God is keeping us? and the bible says we are sealed! Ephesians 4 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. So God the father and Jesus are keeping us wile the holy spirit sealed us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Greetings JohnS, It sure can be confusing at times can't it. Of course, it is God who "keeps" us, however, when we are "born again", we are "born again unto 'good works' ". Your works are what is going to be judged when we meet Him on that day, and if your "works" conform to what Christ DID in your life, then you will be rewarded for your "faithfulness and obedience to Him". I sort of look at it like this analogy. We are all like wild horses until we are captured and a bit placed in our mouth. It may take a while to break from the old ways, and this is what the "bit" does. We need to come to a place where the rider (Jesus) can hop up on you and you instinctively give way to His leading. Sometimes this doesn't come very easy, but the more we buck and the more we try to do the opposite of the Lord's leading, the harder it becomes for us. But once we are "broken", that is "our will" and NOT our "spirit" that is broken, then we shall inherit all the goodness of the Lord that God has bestowed upon Him. Did you know that frequently in the scriptures, we believers are referred to as "sheep". Whenever there is a sheep that keeps wandering off, eventually the shephard will HAVE TO break his leg. Doesn't that sound absolutely horrible and astounding that God would do that? But you know what? He does it in LOVE, because for wandering too far afield, we often put ourselves right into the teeth of the wolves or lions OR the EVIL ONE. It is said of Jesus that He learned faithfulness by the things He suffered. Well, so did ALL the disciples and every martyr that has existed since. If we want to "be LIKE Him", guess what? This world will hate us and in it we will have tribulation. The best way to know if you are "in Christ" is just to look around you. Are you bearing other's burdens, are you suffering for the Name of Christ? Or do you have everything your heart desires and are rich in every way and have need of NOTHING? If we ever come to that place, then we know that we have acquired the Laodician church "spirit". So store up for yourself treasures in heaven where rust and moth do not destroy. THEN you will know that it is HE that keepeth you. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted October 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Excellent reply, Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 31, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Ditto to D.E.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted October 31, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Thanks Trinity and Dad Ernie for your responses! It is said of Jesus that He learned faithfulness by the things He suffered. Well, so did ALL the disciples and every martyr that has existed since. If we want to "be LIKE Him", guess what? This world will hate us and in it we will have tribulation. 1 Peter 4:1-2 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. Should we then seek to suffer? Dad Ernie, It's amazing how you addressed some things that have been on my mind in your response, especially the Laodicean church "spirit". I wonder how much of that spirit we accept as the norm in our churches. We are kept in the hand of God. Jesus died so that he could keep us! isn't that the greaest thing? God is keeping us? and the bible says we are sealed! Ephesians 4 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. So God the father and Jesus are keeping us wile the holy spirit sealed us! All of Ephesians is awesome. It is the mystery revealed and the passage before Eph 4 has been on my heart for weeks now. For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height--to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen. Just to know the love of Christ--the width and length and depth and height of His love. Certainly the prince of this world had nothing in our blessed Lord, even so on His faithful ones who live by His life, the tempter has no point d'appui (speaking of bits ) , by virtue of that their birth, by which they are as He is. Maybe I read more into the seeming contradiction then is actually there. If a man is begotten of God, after all, is the important question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 31, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Greetings JohnS, 1 Peter 4:1-2 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. Should we then seek to suffer? I do not believe scripture tells us to do that. Tribulation will find its way to us ALL ON ITS OWN. We just must make sure that we start every day with the "full armor of God" upon us, so that after we have done everything, we can STAND. I made it a point some time ago to examine what each of the parts of the armor were and why it is necessary and what each part is used for. Do that and and you WILL stand against all the wiles of the enemy. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borntorebel Posted November 2, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2004 John S. That is really kewl! I was just reading this scripture the other day and something jumped out at me. "He that commiteth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 Jn. 3:8-9 KJV. Now, relate this verse to 1 Jn. 5:18 and things look very familiar; Born of God sinneth not begotten (born) of God wicked one toucheth him not. Now, could this relate to Jesus? Jesus is the only person who didn't sin, no human ever has or ever will be able to not sin. In 1 Jn. 5:18, it uses the word 'begotten'. HHmmm, who's the only BEGOTTEN Son of God? Can satan touch us? Sure, jsut read Job. Can satan (the wicked one) touch Christ? NO!! This is just something I recently discovered. It sure does answer all those questions concerning whether or not we humans can stop sinning (which the rest of scripture clearly doesn't teach). Any thoughts? May God's power and peace be with you, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted November 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2004 So which is it? Do we keep ourselves or does God keep us? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is both. Jude 20-21 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repent1 Posted November 10, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2004 Greetings JohnS, It sure can be confusing at times can't it. Of course, it is God who "keeps" us, however, when we are "born again", we are "born again unto 'good works' ". Your works are what is going to be judged when we meet Him on that day, and if your "works" conform to what Christ DID in your life, then you will be rewarded for your "faithfulness and obedience to Him". I sort of look at it like this analogy. We are all like wild horses until we are captured and a bit placed in our mouth. It may take a while to break from the old ways, and this is what the "bit" does. We need to come to a place where the rider (Jesus) can hop up on you and you instinctively give way to His leading. Sometimes this doesn't come very easy, but the more we buck and the more we try to do the opposite of the Lord's leading, the harder it becomes for us. But once we are "broken", that is "our will" and NOT our "spirit" that is broken, then we shall inherit all the goodness of the Lord that God has bestowed upon Him. Did you know that frequently in the scriptures, we believers are referred to as "sheep". Whenever there is a sheep that keeps wandering off, eventually the shephard will HAVE TO break his leg. Doesn't that sound absolutely horrible and astounding that God would do that? But you know what? He does it in LOVE, because for wandering too far afield, we often put ourselves right into the teeth of the wolves or lions OR the EVIL ONE. It is said of Jesus that He learned faithfulness by the things He suffered. Well, so did ALL the disciples and every martyr that has existed since. If we want to "be LIKE Him", guess what? This world will hate us and in it we will have tribulation. The best way to know if you are "in Christ" is just to look around you. Are you bearing other's burdens, are you suffering for the Name of Christ? Or do you have everything your heart desires and are rich in every way and have need of NOTHING? If we ever come to that place, then we know that we have acquired the Laodician church "spirit". So store up for yourself treasures in heaven where rust and moth do not destroy. THEN you will know that it is HE that keepeth you. Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings DE, I pray you the blessings of the Father and the Son I am in complete agreement with all that you have said, a great testimony. I would interject one thing for your consideration; in the verse " It is said of Jesus that He learned faithfulness by the things He suffered". I would suggest that the word "learned" being interpeted is: Demonstrated. He learned (Possessing or demonstrating profound, often systematic knowledge; erudite.) faithfulness by the things he suffered........ What do you think? Your brethren in Christ, Repent1...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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