2ndRateMind Posted February 20, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 But after reading your website, I think your true question is not why rich Christians are hypocrites but rather what will motivate rich Christians to be more giving? Is this not what you are seeking? Yes, that is a more gentle, and palatable, way of putting my agenda. In my defense, I can only say that we are still getting to know each other, and I wasn't sure that a gentle, palatable way of expressing myself would provoke the interest necessary to sustain a debate. Love, eco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 20, 2013 But after reading your website, I think your true question is not why rich Christians are hypocrites but rather what will motivate rich Christians to be more giving? Is this not what you are seeking? Yes, that is a more gentle, and palatable, way of putting my agenda. In my defense, I can only say that we are still getting to know each other, and I wasn't sure that a gentle, palatable way of expressing myself would provoke the interest necessary to sustain a debate. Love, eco. Understood. Basic psychology, though, perceived attacks tend to be returned with defensive maneuvers. I point this out since it is your desire to motivate people. I don't know if anyone who frequents the board is "rich". That I know of, we have truck drivers, a game warden, an adjunct community college instructor, a computer tech or something like that, a dog-sitter, some are retired - stuff like this. So how to reach out to the rich? To be honest, I do not know. I've never tried! As for how the rich Christians reconcile how much they do or do not give with what Scripture says, I would have to talk with some of them and basically just ask them how they perceive things (if I can find one to ask!. Unless I hear a word from the Lord on the matter, that's the only way I know how to understand what they think and perceive. But the purpose needs to be seeking to understrand rather than seeking to change behavior, or you will hit the defense buttons. But once you understand their world, from there perhaps a plan of action can be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2013 I wonder what percentage of yearly income is donated of those who have a net worth over the threshold of $1 million (I'm not even close btw). I tend to think that richer people are more generous than poorer - at least in percentages of income. But then again some of the most generous people I've met are those with barely anything that would give you the shirt of their back. Food, shelter, clothing will always be a problem until Christ returns. I agree with Neb I'm not sure how to reach out to the rich... But food without the Bread of Life (Jesus) is only like putting a bandaid on a major wound that leads to death. Just my 2 cents. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2013 I don't have any studies off-hand, but I do remember reading more than one that concluded that poor people tend to be more generous with their income than rich people when it comes to percentages. I think it is generally attributed to empathy, the poor have a more personal understanding of the poor's plight so they are more willing to give those less fortunate. That is always the case with any situation.Walk in a mans shoes for awhile and you will show compassion because you know what they are going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Today I was in a Doc's office waiting to be seen. He had the TV on. I saw what is considered the world's largest yacht. It's over 500' and it carries a submarine along with spare life boats. It's privately owned. It cost over 1 billion dollars. I don't know anything else about the man who owns it. But I thought of mentioning it on this thread. Unless that man also donates billions a year to help the poor, I think a boat like that is terrible. Why would anyone need such a craft. That made me think of what Jesus said about how hard it is for a rich man to enter heaven. Maybe I'm so poor my mind is twisted. But I don't think anyone should spend over 1 billion dollars to buy a pleasure craft. God forgive me if I'm finger pointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I find it hard to reckon percentages. A rich person's 10% goes a lot further than my 10% ever will. For that matter, a rich person's 10% is probably more than my entire month's income! As for things like yachts and expensive cars - on the flip side, making such cars does provide jobs and income for less fortunate people, correct? If the rich stopped buying such things because they were giving their excesses to charities, a lot of people would be out of jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndRateMind Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) As for things like yachts and expensive cars - on the flip side, making such cars does provide jobs and income for less fortunate people, correct? If the rich stopped buying such things because they were giving their excesses to charities, a lot of people would be out of jobs. I think we have to ask ourselves whether we want to support jobs creating frivolous luxuries, or fundamental necessities. If the money spent on Rolls-Royces was donated to charities, the jobs would not be gone, just shifted into different sectors, like the manufacture of anti-malaria mosquito nets, or HIV-AIDS medications, or sewerage systems. Less glamorous, perhaps, but essentially more moral. And the thing is, if we do resolve this absolute poverty issue, then the global market-place would be so much bigger, the opportunities for trade so much greater, and the potential for economic well-being for everyone radically transformed. The opportunity is for riches for all, instead of riches confined to a privileged elite. Best wishes, eco. Edited February 21, 2013 by ecoTramp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 And the thing is, if we do resolve this absolute poverty issue, then the global market-place would be so much bigger, the opportunities for trade so much greater, and the potential for economic well-being for everyone radically transformed. The opportunity is for riches for all, instead of riches confined to a privileged elite..... Health Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Proverbs 3:5-8 Wealth Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:24-27 And The Pursuit Of Happiness Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Matthew 5:3-12 And Theft Is Still Sin Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. Deuteronomy 5:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndRateMind Posted February 21, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) I find it hard to reckon percentages. A rich person's 10% goes a lot further than my 10% ever will. For that matter, a rich person's 10% is probably more than my entire month's income! I think that this is exactly why Christianity has tended to focus on belief as the criterion for salvation, rather than works. Clearly, the rich can make a bigger impact on society with smaller sacrifice than the poor. Christianity has recognised this from the beginning, and has, not unnaturally, wanted to set a level playing field that is consistent with the notion of a just God. But, as we have seen on another thread, ('moral responsibility for belief' on this forum) this idea of belief being the sole means to salvation has inherent philosophical problems of it's own. My own feeling is that every donated penny will count come judgement day, in precisely the proportion that it constitutes a sacrifice. Meanwhile, in this life, every little helps. Love, eco. Edited February 21, 2013 by ecoTramp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 My own feeling is that every donated penny will count come judgement day, in precisely the proportion that it constitutes a sacrifice. Meanwhile, in this life, every little helps.... Pennies? Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:22-28 Count? And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. Genesis 15:6 ~ Believe For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 And Be Blessed Beloved He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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