Revelation 20:4

[firestormx]

Firestorm, who are they judging during the millennium?

I answered that in my last post, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

I've always thought it was those who are unsaved and lived through the great tribulation. I mean, how can we live and rule with christ for 1000 years if there is nobody to rule over?

Yes, I am seeing this as a strong possibility and reason. Who do you think the judges will be?

Us! We reign with Christ. Just like JohnDB said. Luke 19:17. We believers will be the ruling party with christ.

I didn't get that from John's post. Never the less, scripture does not agree with you on this one.

Revelation 20:4 reads "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

There is never any mention about the rest of us being in this group. Where do you find that we are?

With Christ. Regardless of your end time rapture view, Christ has returned, and we are with him. Those who were alive and remained until his return, regardless of your rapture view, are changed, and we will forever be with the lord. there is no death in christ, to be absent from the body, is to be present with the lord. If Christ is here, then so are we.

[OneLight]

Firestorm, who are they judging during the millennium?

I answered that in my last post, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

I've always thought it was those who are unsaved and lived through the great tribulation. I mean, how can we live and rule with christ for 1000 years if there is nobody to rule over?

Yes, I am seeing this as a strong possibility and reason. Who do you think the judges will be?

Us! We reign with Christ. Just like JohnDB said. Luke 19:17. We believers will be the ruling party with christ.

The world millennium was to the ancient Greek what a million is to the more modern folk... perhaps a billion or a trillion or a Googleplex or something... When I grew up it was million that was the accepted exaggeration...

"That girl will never go out with you in a million years."

Yeah... heard that a lot.

It's okay... saved my from my own poor choices for God's choice the lovely bride of my youth (married 32 years now).

Anyway, not to say it cannot be a literal 1,000 years of 365.25 days each... but the term is an expression of a long period of time contemporary people will not live to see.

And notice the use of after THE thousand years the emphasis could mean more than a literal 1,000 but after the last 1,000 of those years.

And we could be living in the millennium which is another way to say the church age and in the sense that we are (supposed to be anyway) a kingdom of Priests...

1 Peter 2:3-11 (KJV)

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

It does solve a few disputed things...

I was following you until this post, John. I have no reason to believe that the millennium is more that a literal thousand years. I also do not believe we are in the millennium now, for Christ has not returned, we have not been caught up, nor have any of the tribulation come to pass.

[OneLight]

Firestorm, who are they judging during the millennium?

I answered that in my last post, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

I've always thought it was those who are unsaved and lived through the great tribulation. I mean, how can we live and rule with christ for 1000 years if there is nobody to rule over?

Yes, I am seeing this as a strong possibility and reason. Who do you think the judges will be?

Us! We reign with Christ. Just like JohnDB said. Luke 19:17. We believers will be the ruling party with christ.

I didn't get that from John's post. Never the less, scripture does not agree with you on this one.

Revelation 20:4 reads "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

There is never any mention about the rest of us being in this group. Where do you find that we are?

With Christ. Regardless of your end time rapture view, Christ has returned, and we are with him. Those who were alive and remained until his return, regardless of your rapture view, are changed, and we will forever be with the lord. there is no death in christ, to be absent from the body, is to be present with the lord. If Christ is here, then so are we.

I have heard people teach this before. I do not believe that this is what is meant with 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.". I see this as being saved and always with Him, not as following Him around everywhere He goes. The only people I hear will follow the Lamb wherever He goes are the 144,000 sealed. Can you provide other scripture that claims we will follow the Lord wherever He goes?

[firestormx]

I have heard people teach this before. I do not believe that this is what is meant with 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.". I see this as being saved and always with Him, not as following Him around everywhere He goes. The only people I hear will follow the Lamb wherever He goes are the 144,000 sealed. Can you provide other scripture that claims we will follow the Lord wherever He goes?

First, read it in context.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. ¹⁴ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.^[a]

¹⁵ For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

It's not talking about just salvation. These verses are talking about believers who have died.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, ¹⁰ who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Now, before you say this speaks of just salvation here and now, how can those who have died be with him? These verse say the same thing, that we will be with him.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also

I find it throughout the bible that where Jesus is that's where we will be, once he comes again.

I hope this was clear, if not let me know and I'll try again.

[Guest ninhao]

Rev 20:4 KJV And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is it possible the 12 Apostles will be sitting on these thrones.

[OneLight]

I have heard people teach this before. I do not believe that this is what is meant with 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.". I see this as being saved and always with Him, not as following Him around everywhere He goes. The only people I hear will follow the Lamb wherever He goes are the 144,000 sealed. Can you provide other scripture that claims we will follow the Lord wherever He goes?

First, read it in context.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. ¹⁴ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.^[a]

¹⁵ For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

It's not talking about just salvation. These verses are talking about believers who have died.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, ¹⁰ who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Now, before you say this speaks of just salvation here and now, how can those who have died be with him? These verse say the same thing, that we will be with him.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also

I find it throughout the bible that where Jesus is that's where we will be, once he comes again.

I hope this was clear, if not let me know and I'll try again.

When we think of the next life, we say that one will either spend eternity with God or separated from God, we will with be with Jesus or we will be separated from Jesus.

To me, this is what scripture is telling us, that we will spend eternity in His presence, not that we will be as shadow to Him. I believe there will be much more to do for Him,as in taking care of the new earth. I do not believe that we will follow Him wherever He goes, for that is impossible. We are not omnipresence. Since we are not, then we can not be everywhere He is.

I guess it all comes down to the phrase of "always being with Him" and how one looks at it. I read it as being saved and in the same place He is, in the presence of the Father. I do not see this in the same light as I do the 144,000.

[OneLight]

Rev 20:4 KJV And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is it possible the 12 Apostles will be sitting on these thrones.

Then you believe these thrones spoken in this passage are the 12 Thrones on which the Judgment of the 12 Tribes will be done? Something as important as this would of been pointed out in detail, don't you think?

[joi]

I had been looking for information on these verses and had found this site;

http://www.revelationcommentary.org/20_chapter.html

[OneLight]

A lot of times in the Old Testament the original tongue should not have been translated judgment, but deliverance.

Read like this: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and deliverance was committed to them."

Yes I am adding to the word of God, I know this from experience reading the word of God.

But, the word in this case is - κρίμa - krima G2917

[Guest ninhao]

Rev 20:4 KJV And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is it possible the 12 Apostles will be sitting on these thrones.

Then you believe these thrones spoken in this passage are the 12 Thrones on which the Judgment of the 12 Tribes will be done? Something as important as this would of been pointed out in detail, don't you think?

I'm not certain they are the same thrones but don't see why it isn't possible. The Apostles could surely judge both Jew and Gentile because they are both Jew and Christian?

I also think if John was referring to the Apostles, which he is one, it would hint why he didn't say that specifically because he was considered very humble not bringing attention to himself. Also, it could be that John would naturally assume people would know exactly who the judges would be. imo