back2thebible Posted April 9, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 538 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2013 can anyone explain Revelations 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. as the letter was addressed to the angel of the church of Ephesus this verse has always had some perplexing notions behind it could some of the fallen angels of had a change of heart, and could the scripture we see in Colossians 1:20 be speaking of a possibility that His blood has the ability to reconcile those in heavenly places as well and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMomma Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/30/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1971 Share Posted April 10, 2013 It makes ya wonder there. Ive wondered if the fallen angels has changed their minds and if they could be forgiven. I don't know if the forgiveness applies to them like they do us yet fallen angels are still Gods creation so that's a good question btb itd be an interesting study too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chloe_fantastic Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 868 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1981 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I always took that verse to be directed to the people of that particular church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 No, I do not think they can be redeemed. The bible appears to state that they are beyond redemption. Matthew 25 41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand , Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. Matthew 8 28 And when He had come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, two demon-possessed ones met Him, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one might pass by that way. 29 And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 can anyone explain Revelations 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. as the letter was addressed to the angel of the church of Ephesus this verse has always had some perplexing notions behind it could some of the fallen angels of had a change of heart, and could the scripture we see in Colossians 1:20 be speaking of a possibility that His blood has the ability to reconcile those in heavenly places as well and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. What do you think it means B2TB? Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2thebible Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 538 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/14/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 can anyone explain Revelations 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. as the letter was addressed to the angel of the church of Ephesus this verse has always had some perplexing notions behind it could some of the fallen angels of had a change of heart, and could the scripture we see in Colossians 1:20 be speaking of a possibility that His blood has the ability to reconcile those in heavenly places as well and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. What do you think it means B2TB? Curious. well considering one version of interpretation says "remember the heights from which you have fallen" and the letters are each addressed to "To the angel of the church"............I believe the passage is a two fold message, It speaks to both the church as a people group, and it speaks directly to an angel over the church, as it is written in singular verbage I don't know if these angels were part of the rebellion, or if they were demoted for some other infraction, what we do know from scripture, is angels are not perfect, and can sin, and like us they can rebel and go against God In the same way we see people even believers rebelling against God's word, It may be possible that while greater in strength and power angels too, have a sin problem, and are given a choice to do either good or evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 Does anyone really believe that God would place His children under the guidance and control of the fallen angles? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 Why would God ever need a fallen one to be over His church? I do not think it possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2thebible Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 538 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/14/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Does anyone really believe that God would place His children under the guidance and control of the fallen angles? I don't. I see from my life I was not worthy of anything but death, then the blood of Jesus washed me, and I was redeemed, He put me in charge of others lives, and now I do my best to keep them It appears in the bible God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, who do we see God putting in charge of His people, according to the biblical record, He choses the least of men, and in most cases the exact opposite than what we would chose would you have chosen Saul of Tarshish, to be Paul one of the greatest leaders of the faith. or David a young shepard boy, or Moses a man who was not well spoken, even yourself should be an example, unless you were spotless from birth, and here God has allowed you to be a moderator and judge over everyone here, If we were to know all your past sins would we conclude it was a good choice I don't think we can put limits on the power of the blood, or the sins of angels as being to great for the blood to cover. as the bible clearly states in Colossians 1:19-20 "19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross". considering you don't believe angels that sinned were reconciled, can you give me your opinion of what was reconciled in heaven according to this scripture..............I'm hoping you believe "things on earth" being reconciled are humans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgyver Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 321 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1957 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well, I should think that the context (especially with a prophetic book) would dictate the interpretation to a large extent. The word "angel" is angelos (Gr) and malach (Heb), and in their very simplest form simply mean: "Messenger". Many times, the context makes it clear to us...for example: But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. (Matt 1:20), or And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. Then, as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, Luke 24:4-6 In both the above cases, whether named as an "angel" or "two men...in shining garments" we understand these beings to be angels in the sense that they are not human, but rather heavenly messengers. The context of Revelation can IMO help us in the same way. To wit, Revelation 1:20-2:1 establishes the context as to whether "angels" are heavenly beings or men as messengers: The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches. “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: Two things jump out at me immediately: The lampstands. Jesus told us that we were the light of the world, a city set on a hill, a lamp set up for all to see. Very easy IMO to equate that with His church.The angels of the churches: Why would Jesus command that John write to heavenly beings who dwell in the presence of God? Would Jesus give the care of His church to a fallen angel (demon)? I think that we can safely answer with a resounding "NO". [*]Is there anywhere in the entire body of scripture whereby men give instruction to heavenly angels? The answer is no, it is always the other way around. Taking everything together in light of the whole counsel of God, I would say that context dictates that the "angels" mentioned in the above verses is better transated as "messengers" simply to differentiate between human messengers and heavenly beings. In any case, I think that John is being instructed to send letters to the bishops/pastors of the different churches. Hope that helps a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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