Paladin39 Posted May 16, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2013 OK, lets accept all that for the moment. What can you say about this "cause?" Can you deduce ANYTHING about it nature, attitude, intentions, or even assert with confidence that is still around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 16, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,566 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 16, 2013 OK, lets accept all that for the moment. What can you say about this "cause?" Can you deduce ANYTHING about it nature, attitude, intentions, or even assert with confidence that is still around? That which is not contingent but is the contingency of all else cannot cease from being what 'IS'... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByFaithAlone Posted May 16, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 730 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/19/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1993 Share Posted May 16, 2013 OK, lets accept all that for the moment. What can you say about this "cause?" Can you deduce ANYTHING about it nature, attitude, intentions, or even assert with confidence that is still around? We can deduce several things about the nature of the cause. First let me clear up the issue of is it still around. The argument I presented was in the language that philosophers tend to use. The idea of necessity implies that something exists and does not come into or go out of existence. It is logically necessary. So yes it is still around. The attributes of the cause - creative, powerful, intelligent, existing without space or time constraining it. Arguing for the more aspects of the Christian concept of God being the cause will take more arguments but if you wish I can delve into those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyycuuup Posted May 16, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,384 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/20/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1996 Share Posted May 16, 2013 OK, arguendo, the universe is the result of a supernatural being(s) and was deliberately created every atom, every life form. So what? WHAt being? How do you know? Why your favorite invisible friend and not Zeus? And assuming such creatures existed WHY would they care? Your hypothetical assertation is rather redundant and not conclusive to the cause. Being there is a creator, it opens the door to numerous truths science refuses to admit and signify. The "being" is Jesus Christ- Jehovah Bara - the creator of all. I know this because there is something called "God's imprint" this is present in our lives and the world itself. Such things as miracles that defy science and the grand knowledge, preciseness and intellect overall that it took to design such a complex layered life of scientific laws etc. is like Tinky said, intellectual suicide to conclude that it was by accident. Your inquiry is presenting favoritism, when it simply comes down to an implied truth- because there is but One God of Heaven and Earth. I know that He cares because the proof I need and have is Jesus Christ- He more than proved His faithfulness and existence. The reason for His care is love- God is love and cares for us. He has this part of Himself in each of us- being that we are all designed and made for and in Him- we cannot help but have this necessity (whether you want to agree or not- is also redundant- much rather a conflict of interest) to want to know God. (see here: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted June 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) Evolutionists like Steve Hawkins attempt to use time like it is more powerful than God... Like God did not create time. Without time everything is present, everything is more than within reach it is more than touch, it is FEEL. Anyone realizing God created Time can easily understand that God created time... when (a time reference - ha ha ) he wanted to, so take that problem out of the equation and evolutionists do not have a seconds worth of validity.  I stand in agreement with your above statement, Jacob. Edited June 23, 2013 by tgw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taker Posted June 24, 2013 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/24/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1994 Share Posted June 24, 2013 A man trying to contemplate the universe is like an ant trying to contemplate the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByFaithAlone Posted June 24, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 730 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/19/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1993 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Evolutionists like Steve Hawkins attempt to use time like it is more powerful than God... Like God did not create time. Without time everything is present, everything is more than within reach it is more than touch, it is FEEL. Anyone realizing God created Time can easily understand that God created time... when (a time reference - ha ha ) he wanted to, so take that problem out of the equation and evolutionists do not have a seconds worth of validity.  I stand in agreement with your above statement, Jacob.  Sigh... where do I start...? Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang. Stephen Hawking is a physicist not an evolutionary biologist. Hawking also knows that space and time come into existence together he just doesn't think God is the cause. Please get your facts straight. Thanks    A man trying to contemplate the universe is like an ant trying to contemplate the earth.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taker Posted June 28, 2013 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/24/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1994 Share Posted June 28, 2013  Evolutionists like Steve Hawkins attempt to use time like it is more powerful than God... Like God did not create time. Without time everything is present, everything is more than within reach it is more than touch, it is FEEL. Anyone realizing God created Time can easily understand that God created time... when (a time reference - ha ha ) he wanted to, so take that problem out of the equation and evolutionists do not have a seconds worth of validity.  I stand in agreement with your above statement, Jacob.  Sigh... where do I start...? Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang. Stephen Hawking is a physicist not an evolutionary biologist. Hawking also knows that space and time come into existence together he just doesn't think God is the cause. Please get your facts straight. Thanks   A man trying to contemplate the universe is like an ant trying to contemplate the earth.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.   I'm not saying that we shouldn't try, I was merely trying to point out that such issues as the origin of the universe I feel are topics that are beyond human comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2013 Â "M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..." It's that very statement that atheists have been denying all of this time, because to say the universe created itself from nothing is intellectual suicide. Â That is a good way to put it.Oh so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Â Hawking is extremely aware of time. In relativity space and time are joined together into a physical entity. The Hawking-Hartle model of the universe gives another degree of freedom to time to wipe out the singularity that typically characterizes what people think was 'before' the big bang. In that model it's finite yet eternal. Â Â Does "finite yet eternal imply" the universe had a beginning ( year dot etc ) but will have no end ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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