Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[WarmRoom]

sorry shilo while paul was imprisoned its not quite what you made it out to be.

Here is a really good link on the matter

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/144-pauls-two-year-roman-imprisonment

I always interpreted the thorn in his side as dealing with sin not a physical ailment. My background was that of a southern Baptist. My preacher at first Baptist in Selma,AL preached as much. so my understanding is that the implication is we all have sin's that tempt us that are unique to the individual i.e. some struggle with lying others lust etc. We all have to face these temptations with the holy spirit guiding us and protecting us. We falter from these sins when we stray from god. The thorn in ones side is a reference to individual struggles of sin imho.

[Gandalf]

 

 

 

 

It is self-righteousness to judge homosexual sin more harshly that heterosexual sin, which is the point at issue! Jesus pronounced woe on the self-righteous, who thought they knew and kept the rules and judged those whom they thought didn't!

 

 

 

 

I am not judging it more harshly.   If you read my postings, I have come down just as hard on heterosexual adultery, fornication, pornography, lust, incest, etc.   At no time did I ever say that heterosexual sexual sin was not as bad.

 

Evidently, you have decided to assign values to my posts that I don't possess.  I would suggest that you try  to know what you  are talking about before making unfounded and incorrect assumptions.

 

You didn't answer the question:   Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin, Gandalf??

 

All sex outside of marriage is sinful, be it heterosexual or homosexual. I am glad you treat both equally. I note that Jesus was harsher on self-righteousness than on any sexual sin.

 

 

 

 

 

And it's a good thing that pointing out that homosexual desires as sinful as the act they give birth to, isn't self-righteous.  Isn't that right, Gandalf???    

 

Provided we remember that the desire to be right in our own eyes is also sinful! Tough business this sinning! Good thing Jesus is far more forgiving than any of us, even towards those that some of us love to judge and condemn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Provided we remember that the desire to be right in our own eyes is also sinful! Tough business this sinning! Good thing Jesus is far more forgiving than any of us, even towards those that some of us love to judge and condemn.

 

 

 

 

But I have not judged anyone.   I have judged what God has already judged and that is the homosexual lifestyle.  I have never said that gays were bad people or were unforgivable.  But the fact remains that they have sin they need to repent of and if they don't they face God's judgment.

 

Jesus is forgiving, but that forgiveness always follows repentance.  Those who refuse to repent can't appropriate the forgiveness that available to them.  I am not right in my own eyes, but rather, I am saying what the Bible says about the sin of homosexuality.  So far all you can do is pervert my words  to mean something I did not intend.  Your posts serve no  real purpose other than to throw verbal grenades at me.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

sorry shilo while paul was imprisoned its not quite what you made it out to be.

Here is a really good link on the matter

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/144-pauls-two-year-roman-imprisonment

I always interpreted the thorn in his side as dealing with sin not a physical ailment. My background was that of a southern Baptist. My preacher at first Baptist in Selma,AL preached as much. so my understanding is that the implication is we all have sin's that tempt us that are unique to the individual i.e. some struggle with lying others lust etc. We all have to face these temptations with the holy spirit guiding us and protecting us. We falter from these sins when we stray from god. The thorn in ones side is a reference to individual struggles of sin imho.

 

 

 

That article did not refute one thing I said.  People often died in those prisons because Roman prisons were where you were held until your case was heard by the authorities and you were brought to court.   People died there because the Roman prison system at that time didn't feed prisonsers.  You had be fortunate enough to have friends or family to bring you food.  But to help a prisoner back then was dangerous.  You might end up being viewed as a secret accomplice and end up in prison yourself.  That is why visiting prisoners was such a laudable act in Matt. 25.  It took great risk to visit someone in prison.  The Roman prison system was very brutal by our standards and not very clean.

 

 

Paul suffered from a thorn in the FLESH.  If anything it was physical problem from the persecution he suffered and in fact, he may have been asking for deliverance from the persecution itself.  Paul adimitted that he struggled with sin, but that is not the thorn in the FLESH.  Given the way people were stoned  it is likely Paul suffered from long term physical problems and even neurological problems kind of like those suffered by victims of really bad car accidents.  Most every competent Christian commentator/scholar suggests it was a physical problem. 

[WarmRoom]

I don't think they are trying to pervert your words Shilo. The disagreement from my perspective seems not to be what the bible says about homosexuality but the nature of forgivness and the wages of sin. The bible says all sins are damning and equal before the lord correct me if I am wrong on this. So to single out those that claim they suffer from homosexuality as being doomed to hell seems to others that you are singling out a specific group. Applying your logic to other groups. Men who are repeat adulterers are just as guilty as the homosexuals as in both cases they have a sin originating from their heart the difference being one acts on that sin the other does not this makes it seem like you are overly focusing on the homosexual sin as some how being worse than the other sins.

Lets try to put some perspective on the matter

This group views that they are plagued by homosexual temptations this does not mean that they are homosexual does it?

If I were to say I am plagued by drug abuse and the only way for me to keep my addictions at bay is to abstain from associating with drug abusers and situations that would put me into a place of temptation. They are abstaining from sex because this will trigger temptation that is unnatural to them. This is their best solution and they are trusting god to protect them from sin.

[WarmRoom]

also Addicts remain addicts. i.e. Alcoholism there is no such thing as a former alcoholic they are always going to be alcoholic they have to adapt strategies in their lifestyles to avoid the temptation of Alcohol

[Gandalf]

And what about those who are addicted to pride, envy or self-righteousness? Are they any less guilty in God's sight? I reckon they need love and forgiveness just as those who are tempted towards heterosexual or homosexual sin. Judgment and condemnation from other people doesn't help anyone get out of things that ensnare them.

[Guest shiloh357]

And what about those who are addicted to pride, envy or self-righteousness? Are they any less guilty in God's sight? I reckon they need love and forgiveness just as those who are tempted towards heterosexual or homosexual sin. Judgment and condemnation from other people doesn't help anyone get out of things that ensnare them.

 

 

 

 

No they are not less guilty and I never indicated they were.   You are trying to insert a red herring into this.   The fact is that no one is judging or condemning anyone.  That is a value you are assigning to me because you don't have a substantive response to offer.   If anything you are the one sitting in judgment on me for something I have never said or implied.

[Guest shiloh357]

I don't think they are trying to pervert your words Shilo. The disagreement from my perspective seems not to be what the bible says about homosexuality but the nature of forgivness and the wages of sin. The bible says all sins are damning and equal before the lord correct me if I am wrong on this. So to single out those that claim they suffer from homosexuality as being doomed to hell seems to others that you are singling out a specific group.

 

 

 

I am not singling out any particular group. The OP was about homosexuals.  It was not about who the biggest and worst sinners are.  They are not claiming to suffer from homosexuality.  They condone being gay and do not believe it is a sin to be gay, only to engage in gay sex, which demonstrates that they don't really understand how God views sin (and apparently neither do you).

 

 

 

Applying your logic to other groups. Men who are repeat adulterers are just as guilty as the homosexuals as in both cases they have a sin originating from their heart the difference being one acts on that sin the other does not this makes it seem like you are overly focusing on the homosexual sin as some how being worse than the other sins.

 

I have made it clear repeatedly on this thread that I don't view anyone who habitually practices any sin as lesser or greater of a sinner than any other.   You keep trying to pin this view onto me that I am, somehow, condemning homosexuals unfairly and I have bent over backwards repeatedly to make clear that I am against ALL sin no matter what it is.  But evidently, no matter how many times I clarify and reclarify, you are hell bent on assigning particular values to me, no matter what.

Lets try to put some perspective on the matter

This group views that they are plagued by homosexual temptations this does not mean that they are homosexual does it?
If I were to say I am plagued by drug abuse and the only way for me to keep my addictions at bay is to abstain from associating with drug abusers and situations that would put me into a place of temptation. They are abstaining from sex because this will trigger temptation that is unnatural to them. This is their best solution and they are trusting god to protect them from sin.

 

 

 

To plagued by temptations is one thing.   To entertain those tempation and to justify entertaining them to the degree that your desire to carryout those temptations are not viewed as sinful is something else.    The  group in the OP is not analagous to the ex-drug adict who struggles with temptations,  Temptations are not  situation specific. The temptation to drink or do drugs doesn't only happen when you are around people participating in those activities. 

 

There is no human way possible to fully deal with the problem.   Jesus, however, can deliver you from it all.  He can deliver you from the alcoholism and the drug abuse.  Doesn't mean that you won't be tempted but what it DOES mean is that you have the power of the Holy Spirit within you to deal with and He is more powerful than any program or any human will power to resist.  Jesus gives you the ability to conquer the addition once and for all.   Same with any sin, including homosexuality.  Jesus is the cure for it. He is the antidote that will fully deliver someone from that lifestyle and set them on the right path.

[WarmRoom]

I didn't say you were singling out a group shilo I said your words can give that view that you are this is different than actually singling out a group or not. Yes you are operating within the confines of the discussion at hand which is homosexuality.

I am not assigning anything to your views I am merely stating they way in which you are arguing your position will lend itself to a view that you are being unfair. It doesn't matter if you claim you are not but the words you choose to use to defend your position makes it SEEEM that way it does not mean that it is. I would not claim for a second to understand what you believe and/or are thinking.

If jesus is the cure what do they have to do to receive the cure? What happens when the cure in your opinion does not come the way you think it comes? You see they accepted jesus into their hearts why wont he reveal this truth that is so obvious to you to them or is sin more powerful than god?

Secondly I think the real issue here for you is a semantic one not a theological one. Because they identify as homosexual you are getting an impression on them that might not necessarily be true.