Grace

[martyr]

Hear, hear, wordsower!

One more thought also.  Remember as a kid when you had gifts that were battery operated.  Chances are, if you're like me, you wore those batteries down until the game wasn't functioning properly.  You then had to have recharged batteries installed.  I don't ever want to be disconnected from God's grace, especially not to the point of not functioning properly.  May we all pray for "supercharge"

[Guest]

Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man that not only compels him to do what is right, but also enable him. It is getting undeserved favor from a loving God to qualify us to be what He has called us all to be.

Mercy, on the other hand, is not getting what we deserve . . .

Peace,

BlindSeeker

[tsth]

True repentance, I believe, is the wall standing inbetween sin and grace, this is why grace is given to the humble, the proud don't know they need it.

This is so true, and our hearts ache when we are in constant battle and prayer for those who do not want to see.  Especially those who because they say they can see, are really found guilty.  It is those I really struggle for in prayer, for they are so sure they See, when in fact they are so very blind and naked, and they are the most difficult to convince of the Truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Here are a few verses I thought I would share on Grace.

There are many, but I thought I would post some to start with.

The Work of Grace within us:  Titus 2:12

Grace and Righteousness:

Isaiah 26:10

Romans 5:17-21

Galatians 2:21

Galatians 5:4-5

Gen. 6:8-9

Grace to Serve God Acceptably

Hebrews 12:28

Exodus 33:12-19

2 Cor. 1:12

Grace and Works

(Our works must be through the Grace of Jesus Christ that is given now, it cannot be works of ourselves - See Gal. 5:4, Eph. 3:7, 2 Tim. 1:9)  But our faith must be accompanied by the works ordained for us by God the Father

Acts. 20:32

1 Cor. 15:10

2 Cor. 9:8

Acts. 15:11

Acts 4:33

Insulting Grace

Hebrews 10:9

Hebrews 12:15

2 Cor. 6:1

I have to stop here, there's more, just can't post them all right now.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

I came to a complimentary conclusion in studying the post regarding the temple.  I would encourage you to take a look:

http://www.worthyboards.com/board....entry10

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Ephesians 2:22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

A Prayer for the understanding of Grace

Ephesians 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 3:7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

3:14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever.

Amen.

[BlindSeeker]

Amen.

Christ in me, my only hope of glory.

[wordsower]

Alias,

Your belief is that obedience to the ten commandments is the basis for God's approval and blessings.  Right?

Keeping the ten commandments would guarantee that we received nothing but God's best in all aspects of our life--just like Adam and Eve. The problem is our inability to keep them.  This is the reason we need the blood.  If we say we have no sin we are liars, if we say we keep the law we are liars. In fact, had man not fallen in the first place, there would be no need for the commandments. Instead he would have lived his life in perfect harmony/dependence with the creator.

So, the commandments were given to point out our disconnectedness from God, but offers NO solution cuz it can't be done, we can't keep them we are hopeless, helpless. Having recognized the problem, it drives us to the only place for redemption--the cross.

I think you acknowledge that this is how we are saved--I don't think you are saying (consciously) that we receive salvation by keeping the commandments, however, it is at this point that we part company. You argue that, having been saved by grace, the Holy Spirit empowers the Christian to keep his law out of gratitude for the gift of salvation--the law being the transcript of God's character.

Besides the fact that there is no scriptural support for this position, it changes the function of the law. Galatians 4:23-25, clearly says, "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." The law has only one purpose--to lead us to Christ. Having done that, it serves no more useful purpose. Anyone who teaches otherwise needs to do more than argue from human logic. They must show scriptural support.

Of course, the next argument is that by saying we are no longer bound by the ten commandments (including the fourth) that we are saying that we have license to engage in all manner of licentious behavior. This is a ridiculous argument and borders on blasphemy. The death blow to this ridiculous argument is found in Galatians 5:13-21

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now, let me ask you, "why would Paul counsel us not to use our freedom to indulge our sinful nature if we were not free (still bound by the law) in the first place?" There would be no freedom to exercise, right?

How crazy would it be for the warden to tell a prisoner not to abuse his freedom as he sends him back to his cell, yet this is the same argument that you make when you say that we are saved by grace, but still bound to the law . No, the Bible is quite clear that we have been released from the law, "so that we might be married to another. The "other" is Christ, and he provides us his Holy Spirit to lead us to the source of all truth--him. That's why in Ephesians 5:15-18 Paul counsels us to:

15Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

When we are under the influence of the Spirit, the law has nothing to say to us. You want to place us back under the law, deny that Christ has redeemed us, and discount the work of the Holy Spirit. Failing to believe that Christ's sacrifice is sufficient, or that the Holy Spirit is capable of leading us to Christ, you instead choose to return to a system marked by human effort.

I can think of a wealth of "sins" that are not covered by the ten commandments. Is it okay to beat your wife? How about neglecting my children? Where in the ten commandments does it cover using illegal drugs?  These and other behaviors that we would both agree are destructive, and not conducive to the life of a Christian are not covered by the ten commandments. However, when we are controlled by the Spirit, our focus  shifts away from external behavior and back to re-establishing a heart (trust) relationship with our Saviour. Oh what a difference that makes!! We are no longer trying to please God simply out of fear, but instead are seeking to connect with him in order to experience life eternally.

The 10 Commandments were a symbol of Judiasm as much as circumcision. In Deut 6:21 it further states the reasons for the Jews to keep this particular law, was to remember that they had been delivered from Egypt. The fourth commandment also has the Creation as a marker. However, this law could not be God's immutible law, that existed in heaven before our earth, since there was no creation of the earth, nor any delivery from Egypt for others in the universe. These  uniquely apply to the Jews.

Hebrews 4, says that God never appointed another day to be kept like the original Sabbath. However, read closely and you will see that the Sabbath was meant to be a symbol of the peace one can have with God, TODAY, why is it capitalized and emphasized?  It says if Joshua had given them rest, He (Jesus) would not have spoken of another day, Therefore, "Today" if you will not harden your heart as they did.   To  hang on to the symbol without finding that peace is the result.

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (the chosen and the lost, the Jew and the Gentile)

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Rom 2:18 And knowest His will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Note: These were "religious" men who had a FORM of knowledge and that the law in itself is truth but were practicing the letter of the law and not the heart of the law. (Big difference)

We Christians were the Gentiles who never lived by the law but since the Spirit took up residence in our hearts, He gave us the spirit of the law.

2Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

2Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Cor 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Cor 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Cor 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Cor 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2Cor 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

2Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

2Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Blessings!

:a2:

[tsth]

Dear alias,

I would like to respond to your basic question. But I would like to know what is the foundation of what you are asking?   Go ahead and say what is on your mind and I will answer.  You have much to say, and I would really like to respond, but I would like to answer one question at a time.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest alias]

Hi,

Well lets take it one question at a time then...heh in my mad rush I did ask a lot of questions. I'm 23 and a college student btw (honestly).

--> Would you attribute grace as a new testament theme, and the Law as an Old Testament                              theme?