The Confusing thing about the Rapture is...

[John S]

Pity the people who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture because they have already been deceived.

When the AC arrives and they are still here, they will be in for the shock of their lives. They will refuse to believe that so and so is the AC because they are still here. They will be angry at God for breaking a "promise" that they THINK that He made - but didn't.

If there is a Rapture, it will be POST-Trib.

[Floatingaxe]

Pity the people who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture because they have already been deceived.

When the AC arrives and they are still here, they will be in for the shock of their lives. They will refuse to believe that so and so is the AC because they are still here. They will be angry at God for breaking a "promise" that they THINK that He made - but didn't.

If there is a Rapture, it will be POST-Trib.

 

There is no deception in the belief in the Pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church. Tribulation is called Jacob's Trouble for the reason that God will be dealing with Israel, and the Church is out of the way. There is a promise in scripture that the righteous will not undergo judgment---well Tribulation is rife with judgments---for the world, not for the Body of Christ.

 

When the Church suddenly becomes absent and the Antichrist comes to full power, the unbeliever who has a bit of knowledge will surely understand he has missed the boat.

 

Those who perch on their lofty tower and condemn sisters and brothers in Christ for being deceived, and condescend to even have pity on them, are basically loopy. We are allowed---by God---to determine for ourselves what the end will entail. It has no bearing on salvation or even spiritual knowledge and understanding. So, knock it off with your judgmental tone. It seems to me that the only people who speak with condemnation and accusations are the post-Trib variety, for which reason I don't even want to be counted among you.

[Elhanan]

 

 

 

 

Despite their differences, all 3 views that you cite (pre, mid, post) share one thing in common - they all agree that the dead in Christ are resurrected first to meet Christ in the air before those who are still living. They differ in when this takes place.  Martha, the sister of Lazarus specifies just when this resurrection takes place: "Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jn 11:24  Thus the pretrib view is eliminated because it holds that the rapture takes place before the last day.

 

 

Sorry, but that is just your opinion, and it doesn't jive with what many others see as THE LAST DAY. There is more than one LAST DAY. The righteous living have an appointed last day as do the unrighteous living. Then there is another last day where Jesus, the King, once returned, will judge the nations (Sheep and Goats judgment).

 

The Pre-trib view cannot be eliminated, as the call of the Bridegroom to His waiting Bride is the Bride's particular last day as betrothed.

 

Of course it's my opinion. As if you don't have an opinion?  Unfortunately your opinion holds no water as it cannot be substantiated by Scripture which is the only thing that matters despite what you or "others" claim.  The pre-trib view of course maintains that the rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation period.  However, no where in the Bible is the time period before the tribulation ever referred to as the Last Day, therefore your notion is false.  If you can show me scripture that refutes this, I will gladly reconsider my opinion.

 

 

Everything I believe is substantiated by Scripture. There are many different last days. The last day for the Church is the Rapture.

While you claim your belief is substantiated by scripture you posit no such scripture references at all - can you cite them and how do they specifically back up what you say?  Also you have not responded to my question as to where does the Bible say that period before the start of the tribulation is known as the Last Day? It's fine to have your opinion but even better to have scriptural warrant so others can evaluate your claim.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Elhanan

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

 

Despite their differences, all 3 views that you cite (pre, mid, post) share one thing in common - they all agree that the dead in Christ are resurrected first to meet Christ in the air before those who are still living. They differ in when this takes place.  Martha, the sister of Lazarus specifies just when this resurrection takes place: "Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jn 11:24  Thus the pretrib view is eliminated because it holds that the rapture takes place before the last day.

 

 

Sorry, but that is just your opinion, and it doesn't jive with what many others see as THE LAST DAY. There is more than one LAST DAY. The righteous living have an appointed last day as do the unrighteous living. Then there is another last day where Jesus, the King, once returned, will judge the nations (Sheep and Goats judgment).

 

The Pre-trib view cannot be eliminated, as the call of the Bridegroom to His waiting Bride is the Bride's particular last day as betrothed.

 

Of course it's my opinion. As if you don't have an opinion?  Unfortunately your opinion holds no water as it cannot be substantiated by Scripture which is the only thing that matters despite what you or "others" claim.  The pre-trib view of course maintains that the rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation period.  However, no where in the Bible is the time period before the tribulation ever referred to as the Last Day, therefore your notion is false.  If you can show me scripture that refutes this, I will gladly reconsider my opinion.

 

 

Everything I believe is substantiated by Scripture. There are many different last days. The last day for the Church is the Rapture.

While you claim your belief is substantiated by scripture you posit no such scripture references at all - can you cite them and how do they specifically back up what you say?  Also you have not responded to my question as to where does the Bible say that period before the start of the tribulation is known as the Last Day? It's fine to have your opinion but even better to have scriptural warrant so others can evaluate your claim.

 

Did you not see my last post?

[Elhanan]

I did see your last post bopeep - don't know what your point is though since you didn't elaborate much.

[missmuffet]

I did see your last post bopeep - don't know what your point is though since you didn't elaborate much.

Do I need to eleborate to make a point?

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

Despite their differences, all 3 views that you cite (pre, mid, post) share one thing in common - they all agree that the dead in Christ are resurrected first to meet Christ in the air before those who are still living. They differ in when this takes place.  Martha, the sister of Lazarus specifies just when this resurrection takes place: "Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jn 11:24  Thus the pretrib view is eliminated because it holds that the rapture takes place before the last day.

 

 

Sorry, but that is just your opinion, and it doesn't jive with what many others see as THE LAST DAY. There is more than one LAST DAY. The righteous living have an appointed last day as do the unrighteous living. Then there is another last day where Jesus, the King, once returned, will judge the nations (Sheep and Goats judgment).

 

The Pre-trib view cannot be eliminated, as the call of the Bridegroom to His waiting Bride is the Bride's particular last day as betrothed.

 

Of course it's my opinion. As if you don't have an opinion?  Unfortunately your opinion holds no water as it cannot be substantiated by Scripture which is the only thing that matters despite what you or "others" claim.  The pre-trib view of course maintains that the rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation period.  However, no where in the Bible is the time period before the tribulation ever referred to as the Last Day, therefore your notion is false.  If you can show me scripture that refutes this, I will gladly reconsider my opinion.

 

 

Everything I believe is substantiated by Scripture. There are many different last days. The last day for the Church is the Rapture.

While you claim your belief is substantiated by scripture you posit no such scripture references at all - can you cite them and how do they specifically back up what you say?  Also you have not responded to my question as to where does the Bible say that period before the start of the tribulation is known as the Last Day? It's fine to have your opinion but even better to have scriptural warrant so others can evaluate your claim.

 

 

 

We have access to all the same scriptures. There are many last days. The last day for the Bride as betrothed is the day of the Rapture---it stands to reason. That is the day of resurrection of all the righteous as Mary mentioned to Jesus!

 

Matthew 11:24

“Yes,” Martha said, “he will rise when everyone else rises, at the last day.”

 

 

That is the only last day we are discussing.

[Elhanan]

bopeep - I said I saw your 2 Tim reference since I assume that's what you asked.  You then asked if you need to elaborate.  The answer is no if you want to make a point; yes if you want to make a point since I have no clue what it is.

[missmuffet]

bopeep - I said I saw your 2 Tim reference since I assume that's what you asked.  You then asked if you need to elaborate.  The answer is no if you want to make a point; yes if you want to make a point since I have no clue what it is.

Thanks.That is clear as mud.

[Leonard]

AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW:

Since "The Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN YOU" as Jesus said, and since we are 'surrounded with a great CLOUD of witnesses,' as Paul said: When Jesus 'down-steps from Heaven,' WHERE WILL HE COME FROM?

And what CLOUD do we rise to meet Him in?

Just the same, if Jesus suddenly appears in the Eastern sky shouting "COME UP HITHER!" I will not pause to debate the theological point with Him!

As an aside: I just noticed I have ZERO 'warning points.' I do not know what a 'warning point' is, but I cannot help but think I have earned AT LEAST ONE!!!!