The Rainbow Agenda and the Christian Response

[Guest]

 

Amen and thank you for your post.

 

The last sentence is so perfectly accurate.  For one reason or another many Christians have made homosexuality the chief of sins and the battle line in the sand.

 

Often this battle is very ugly and while the Christian view is the Godly view, it comes off looking shrill and hateful.   there is a way to be against a sin, any sin, and not come across as hateful.

 

False.  It is the homosexual community, and more to the point, also certain so-called Liberal or "Progressive" Christians that attempt to legitamize homosexuality that keep it at the fore-front of hot-button topics.  If people would stop putting it in people's faces and try and tell them the behavior is acceptable, it would cease being a problem altogether.  I don't want to go around attempting to eradicate homosexuality, nor do I do that.  But when someone steps into my home and tells me something is acceptable when it is not, and I have to like it, they are not going to like what I have to say in return.   Wouldn't matter if it was my own child or whether they were advocating homosexuality or theft.  I am going to tell them it is still wrong in no uncertain terms.  It is an ever-present issue because the gay community makes it one.

 

I contend with my daughter every day about this. She KNOWS that I KNOW it is a sin. It is hard to deal with her. But, I still love her unconditionally. She needs prayer because she won't listen to reason or Truth. I especially agree with you that if it was just left alone, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is the GLBTs, liberals, and progressives that keep sexuality in our faces while claiming to just wanting to be left alone.

[JDavis]

 

 

I cannot help that people have different levels of reading comprehension.   there is nothing that I wrote that is in anyway supporting homosexuality.    I pointed out a fact that in this society we have lost the battle against homosexuality, it has now become an accepted practice.  I do not agree with this, but it is reality.   Christians need to understand this fact so that we can put our focus where it belongs.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with my comprehension skills.  I am not the only one seeing something not-quite-right, or conflicting with your posts, or not being clear on what you are advocating.  When clarification on something is needed, it is always best, especially from a Christian standpoint to explain and clear the air so there are absolutely no misunderstandings.  

 

You accused me of lying about you, twice, but when I confront that accusation with options you have as a member, to counter that alleged behavior, it is suddenly no longer an issue.  Interesting.

 

So I will just ask you directly:  

 

Are you in favor of homosexual marriage?  Do you support it?  Because your posts seem to indicate that, since you feel the battle is already lost, we should simply accept defeat, no longer speak about the issue, and just accept gay marriage as eventual fact and just support it.  

 

Clarification, on your part, is needed.

 

 

I am not in favor of same sex marriage and I do not support same sex marriage.  How you could come to any other conclusion is a mystery to me.

 

The battle is lost, that is not in question.  Just as we lost the battle of sex outside of marriage, divorce and a many other things. 

 

The question is where do we go from here?  How do we deal with the fact the legal battle is lost?  To me this was the major mistake of the church, trying to win the battle in the realm of the worlds legal system, it was doomed to fail from the beginning.    Perhaps instead of a decade lost in legal battles we had instead spent that time trying to win over more souls we would not find ourselves where we are now.

[Steve_S]

 

I am not in favor of same sex marriage and I do not support same sex marriage.  How you could come to any other conclusion is a mystery to me.

 

The battle is lost, that is not in question.  Just as we lost the battle of sex outside of marriage, divorce and a many other things. 

 

The question is where do we go from here?  How do we deal with the fact the legal battle is lost?  To me this was the major mistake of the church, trying to win the battle in the realm of the worlds legal system, it was doomed to fail from the beginning.    Perhaps instead of a decade lost in legal battles we had instead spent that time trying to win over more souls we would not find ourselves where we are now.

 

 

 

My general feeling is that we cannot defeat these sins, people will do this stuff no matter what. The main difference in adultry and fornication is that the people who do those sins aren't asking for institutionalization of them, i.e. they're not going to the government and saying "please legitimize what i'm doing so there can be legal penalties for the social backlash that may occur as a result of them" or "please institutionalize my sinful actions so I can get the benefits that are given to men and women who enter into the marriage covenant with each other." The bottom line is that we cannot endorse sin of any sort which means that we can't endorse gay marriage as a church and we cannot recognize its legitimacy, under any circumstances, as a church.

[Guest ninhao]

My general feeling is that we cannot defeat these sins, people will do this stuff no matter what. The main difference in adultry and fornication is that the people who do those sins aren't asking for institutionalization of them, i.e. they're not going to the government and saying "please legitimize what i'm doing so there can be legal penalties for the social backlash that may occur as a result of them" or "please institutionalize my sinful actions so I can get the benefits that are given to men and women who enter into the marriage covenant with each other." The bottom line is that we cannot endorse sin of any sort which means that we can't endorse gay marriage as a church and we cannot recognize its legitimacy, under any circumstances, as a church.

 

 

Steve didn't  a form of legitimised fornication occur by petitioning the government to give people living together  the same rights as the married ie. cohabitation for a period of time as spouses implies marriage.

[JDavis]

 

 

I am not in favor of same sex marriage and I do not support same sex marriage.  How you could come to any other conclusion is a mystery to me.

 

The battle is lost, that is not in question.  Just as we lost the battle of sex outside of marriage, divorce and a many other things. 

 

The question is where do we go from here?  How do we deal with the fact the legal battle is lost?  To me this was the major mistake of the church, trying to win the battle in the realm of the worlds legal system, it was doomed to fail from the beginning.    Perhaps instead of a decade lost in legal battles we had instead spent that time trying to win over more souls we would not find ourselves where we are now.

 

 

You cannot get anything done by throwing your hands up in defeat and giving up.  All you do in such a case is virtually guarantee that the other side gains ground.  Paul and all the other Apostles used every single tool at their disposal to both combat sin, false doctrine, and advance the Gospel, including the Roman court system.  So the assertion that a Christian should not waste time with the court system is at odds with what the Bible says, even Jesus Himself in Luke 18.

 

If you think the battle is lost, then you have lost it.  Not every one else.  You can't stop adultery, or fornication, or homosexuality.  It does not then follow that one should just abandon the fight and accept gay marriage as the ultimate consequence of that.  That is not logic.  I may not win the fight against these insidious sins that ruin the lives of the people practicing them, but I will never give up fighting against them, because it is too important to give it up.  For anyone.

 

 

I am not speaking of giving up, I am talking about trying a new tactic.   The one we have used for the last decade has been a failure.   If there is one thing my time in the military has taught me, it is that if you are losing the battle, try something different. 

 

Paul did not use the court system to try and change laws to make people behave in a certain way.

 

Finally, I think the reason we are losing the battle is evident in your final paragraph, the fight should be for the souls of the lost and not against one particular sin or another.   You don't save people by stopping them from doing an action, you save them by showing them the gospel and changing their hearts.  As long as the focus is on a fight against a sin we will never win, it is like trying to nail jello to a tree. 

 

Christians need to stop focusing on sins and start focusing on humans.

[JDavis]

 

 

I am not in favor of same sex marriage and I do not support same sex marriage.  How you could come to any other conclusion is a mystery to me.

 

The battle is lost, that is not in question.  Just as we lost the battle of sex outside of marriage, divorce and a many other things. 

 

The question is where do we go from here?  How do we deal with the fact the legal battle is lost?  To me this was the major mistake of the church, trying to win the battle in the realm of the worlds legal system, it was doomed to fail from the beginning.    Perhaps instead of a decade lost in legal battles we had instead spent that time trying to win over more souls we would not find ourselves where we are now.

 

 

 

My general feeling is that we cannot defeat these sins, people will do this stuff no matter what. The main difference in adultry and fornication is that the people who do those sins aren't asking for institutionalization of them, i.e. they're not going to the government and saying "please legitimize what i'm doing so there can be legal penalties for the social backlash that may occur as a result of them" or "please institutionalize my sinful actions so I can get the benefits that are given to men and women who enter into the marriage covenant with each other." The bottom line is that we cannot endorse sin of any sort which means that we can't endorse gay marriage as a church and we cannot recognize its legitimacy, under any circumstances, as a church.

 

 

we can never defeat sins, all we can do is win souls. 

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no longer a stigma attached to adultery that there once was.   Politicians can come back from it with ease, a previous president was not hurt by it at all.  it is an accepted part of our society to the point people are writing books saying that humans were never meant for monogamy in the first place.

 

That is not reflective of all of America, only the liberal sector which is hardly an accurate barometer of what Americans think about adultery.  Politicians and celebrities live in their own unique culture and are completely out of touch with how adultery affects the average American family.

I have a question for you all.

 

It is my personal opinion that as far as our society in the US is concerned, we have lost this battle.   Homosexuality is seen as "normal" by a majority of our population and only the age group over 65 finds a majority against it.  The youngest group 18-29 is at 70% and climbing.  The latest Supreme Court ruling was a huge blow to the battle.

 

I will leave aside my views on why I think this has happened and ask what is the next move for the church?  Where do we as Christians go from here?

 

 

We are losing the battle for several reasons, but one of the main reasons we are losing (in the short term) is because the liberal sector has successfully brainwashed society to view homosexuality as a sexual orientation.   An orientation suggests that it is something one is born with and if that is the case,  a gay person cannot help being gay anymore than one can help what race or ethnicity they are born into.

 

So, by calling it an orientation, it is viewed as normal.  Calling it a sin is viewed as hate in that light.    Homosexuality is not an orientation.  It is a spiritual stronghold and Jesus is the only cure for this spriitual disease.

 

In addition to all of that, the general public is kept clueless and ignorant about the dark side of homosexuality such as the high suicide rate among homosexuals, the lack of fidelity or monogamy in homosexual relationships.  It is often connected to substance abuse.

 

What many people fail to remember is that AIDS was originally called "GRID" Gay Related Immune Deficiency."  But it was eventually transmitted to Bi-sexuals and then on to heterosexuals and the name was changed to AIDS in order to mask the connection to homosexuality.

 

While it may appear we are losing the battle, we are winning the war.  There are lots of homosexuals coming to know Jesus and there are many ministries out there who are changing lives with the Gospel. 

 

We will never win in the media sector, but we can win where it matters the most.

[JDavis]

 

 

I am not speaking of giving up, I am talking about trying a new tactic.   The one we have used for the last decade has been a failure.   If there is one thing my time in the military has taught me, it is that if you are losing the battle, try something different. 

 

Paul did not use the court system to try and change laws to make people behave in a certain way.

 

Finally, I think the reason we are losing the battle is evident in your final paragraph, the fight should be for the souls of the lost and not against one particular sin or another.   You don't save people by stopping them from doing an action, you save them by showing them the gospel and changing their hearts.  As long as the focus is on a fight against a sin we will never win, it is like trying to nail jello to a tree. 

 

Christians need to stop focusing on sins and start focusing on humans.

 

False dichotomy.  No one wants laws either kept or made to "control people's behavior" in regards to homosexuality.  They obviously already have the "right" to be homosexual.  No one is hindering that right, in any way.  The statement that anyone is trying to control their behavior is false all day, every day.  Homosexuals want the right to marry at the expense of other people's rights, i.e., faith-based groups.  Gay activists want Christians to set aside their rights, or abandon them wholesale, so that they can have the right to "marry."  And if you were in the military, then you should already know that that ain't how the system works.  That mindset clearly violates the 1st amendment.  Because homosexuals don't just want the right to marry, they want to force religious institutions to perform those marriages, and they want to force people to not be allowed to voice any dissent against them and their lifestyle.  That is a violation of the 1st amendment in both cases.

 

We are losing the battle because we have a twisted secular world that very much wants to convince people that there is no such thing as sin.  If we allow the government, which is supposed to serve all of us, not just militant gays, to impose restrictions on our ability to voice what is and conversely, is not acceptable lifestyles, there is no way we can effectively do what you advocate.  How can you proclaim the Gospel wearing a muzzle?  I am not talking about "stopping" a behavior of any kind, and statements such as that, when aimed toward me will be just as false the 100th time you repeat it as it was the 1st time you said it.  You don't dupe people into thinking what they do is acceptable when it is actually detrimental.  Why would you automatically assume that I don't show people the Gospel?  That is our first and foremost calling as Christians.  It isn't an "either" - "or" proposition.   And if gays think they are set and there is nothing they need to change, just exactly how are you going to introduce them to this Gospel?  They are content.  They don't even know they need it, because they surround themselves with people who tell them what they want to hear.  Allowing that to continue unchecked is not an expedient or effective way to get the Gospel to them.

 

 

when I spoke of people not sharing the Gospel, I was not referring to any particular person but to the Church in America in general.

 

I believe it is an either-or proposition, I do not believe that you can fight both "fights" effectively.   You can fight against sins or you can fight for souls which will affect the sin in the long run.

 

The legal battle has left Christians looking petty and hateful, which makes it hard to spread the Gospel. 

[JDavis]

 

There is no longer a stigma attached to adultery that there once was.   Politicians can come back from it with ease, a previous president was not hurt by it at all.  it is an accepted part of our society to the point people are writing books saying that humans were never meant for monogamy in the first place.

 

That is not reflective of all of America, only the liberal sector which is hardly an accurate barometer of what Americans think about adultery.  Politicians and celebrities live in their own unique culture and are completely out of touch with how adultery affects the average American family.

I have a question for you all.

 

It is my personal opinion that as far as our society in the US is concerned, we have lost this battle.   Homosexuality is seen as "normal" by a majority of our population and only the age group over 65 finds a majority against it.  The youngest group 18-29 is at 70% and climbing.  The latest Supreme Court ruling was a huge blow to the battle.

 

I will leave aside my views on why I think this has happened and ask what is the next move for the church?  Where do we as Christians go from here?

 

 

We are losing the battle for several reasons, but one of the main reasons we are losing (in the short term) is because the liberal sector has successfully brainwashed society to view homosexuality as a sexual orientation.   An orientation suggests that it is something one is born with and if that is the case,  a gay person cannot help being gay anymore than one can help what race or ethnicity they are born into.

 

So, by calling it an orientation, it is viewed as normal.  Calling it a sin is viewed as hate in that light.    Homosexuality is not an orientation.  It is a spiritual stronghold and Jesus is the only cure for this spriitual disease.

 

In addition to all of that, the general public is kept clueless and ignorant about the dark side of homosexuality such as the high suicide rate among homosexuals, the lack of fidelity or monogamy in homosexual relationships.  It is often connected to substance abuse.

 

What many people fail to remember is that AIDS was originally called "GRID" Gay Related Immune Deficiency."  But it was eventually transmitted to Bi-sexuals and then on to heterosexuals and the name was changed to AIDS in order to mask the connection to homosexuality.

 

While it may appear we are losing the battle, we are winning the war.  There are lots of homosexuals coming to know Jesus and there are many ministries out there who are changing lives with the Gospel. 

 

We will never win in the media sector, but we can win where it matters the most.

 

 

It is not a short term loss, once society views homosexuality as an orientation, there is no going back.  There is no long term win, other than the return of Jesus.

 

The irony of the dark side of homosexuality is that many of the things you listed would improve with acceptance.   I am not suggesting we should change our views,  just pointing out a fact.

 

We cannot win where it matters most if we are made to look like hateful bigots in the media sector.   Like it or not when it comes to showing people the Love of Christ, the messenger matters.

[CAP73]

Ya'll need to chill a little.  Did any one read the whole article he linked to?  He just posted a little part of it as he said.  The article outright claims homosexuality is a sin.  I never thought I would defend a Cardinals fan.