UndecidedFrog Posted November 27, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2004 Dear budman, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. I am sure you truly believe in your religion, otherwise you would not believe in it. I'm just asking you to extend that same understanding to others who, like you, believe so vehemently in their beliefs however different. Do you truly think they do not believe in their religion as being just as true for them? Do you think they: 1) have a second class understanding of their religion compared to you and your's? 2) truly do not believe as they do? 3) do not think they are absolutely correct in their beliefs? Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 27, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2004 UF, Do you think the Lord Jesus when He made claims to be God? When He healed people and forgave their sin's? When He told of the coming time of Judgment and hellfire? Do you think He was sincere? Or was He merely just a man making claims? Do you believe Jesus to be just a Good man on par with other Good men? The question really is not whether we are sincere in our beliefs, in our Faith. The question really is what do you believe the case to be my friend? Who is Jesus Christ? How are your sins absolved my friend? I'm not concerned right now with all the focus on how unfair or unjust you deem our Faith to be. I'm concerned about you. What say you? What of your sins my friend? What of this low living? You were made for so much more than this. You have a brilliant mind. Let the Lord set it Free. I am sure that you Truly believe what you do. The problem is God is right and we men are wrong. That is what you Truly find offensive about Christianity. The difference with us is that we have been on the side of the fence you currently are on. We are not mindless driveling Church going robots. God has set us Free. We found out we were wrong and God was right. This was not any of our doing either. No one comes to the Father lest He draw them unto Himself. I wasn't such a bad guy either? Until God showed me how far below the mark I truly was. I still am. It is only by His Righteousness that I am forgiven. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 27, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2004 Dear Dr. Luke, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thanks for your response, however off topic. If you feel the need to take this part of the thread and start another or move it to another place, I wouldn't object. Now to answer your questions in your post (and there were several): Do you think the Lord Jesus when He made claims to be God? No, I don't think of Jesus when he made claimes to be god. When He healed people and forgave their sin's? I do not believe he healed people. And I don't believe in sin. When He told of the coming time of Judgment and hellfire? I do understand the concept of hellfire and time of judgment, however, I do not believe in them. Do you think He was sincere? If Jesus claimed those things, I have no doubt he felt himself sincere. Or was He merely just a man making claims? I don't know if he made any claims. All you have is other people's understanding of what he claimed. The question really is not whether we are sincere in our beliefs, in our Faith. The question really is what do you believe the case to be my friend? I don't believe that Jesus is/was god. I don't believe in any god/s. Who is Jesus Christ? Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure that some attribute is/was god. Others believe him to be a prophet. Others believe him to be a heretic among many of his time. I do not subscribe to any of the above. I have no knowledge of his place in history if any. How are your sins absolved my friend? I don't believe in the need to be absolved of "sins." I do not believe in original sin. What say you? What of your sins my friend? What of this low living? You were made for so much more than this. You have a brilliant mind. Let the Lord set it Free. Thank you for thinking me of living low. I certainly do not think I am living low. Contrary to your belief, my parents are proud of where I am today. This was not any of our doing either. No one comes to the Father lest He draw them unto Himself. Well, I guess you can say that I haven't been drawn yet. I wasn't such a bad guy either? I do not think of you as a bad guy, just one that has allowed his perspective to overcome some forms of common courtesy. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted November 27, 2004 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,466 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,800 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,527 Days Won: 130 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted November 27, 2004 Hello UF, I'm really interested in hearing how you don't believe in SIN? Sin in Hebrew is the word CHET which simply means -- Missing the Mark. It simply is missing the mark of perfection. So when I read you don't believe in SIN, I think to myself -- Do you think you are perfect? I'm pretty sure you don't believe that. So can you clarify what you mean when you say -- I don't believe in sin. By the way UF, I've notice your posts and I'm sincere when I say I'm glad you are here to express yourself in a courteous way. Your friend, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted November 27, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 UF, Don't get me wrong, I am glad you are here also, but I must ask: Why? Are you here because you really want some answers? Or are you attempting to discredit Christianity in some way? You yourself stated you don't believe in Christianity at all. So why do you frequent a Christian site? warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 28, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2004 Dear George, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thanks for your response. I'm really interested in hearing how you don't believe in SIN? Sin in Hebrew is the word CHET which simply means -- Missing the Mark. It simply is missing the mark of perfection. So when I read you don't believe in SIN, I think to myself -- Do you think you are perfect? I'm pretty sure you don't believe that. So can you clarify what you mean when you say -- I don't believe in sin. To me, sin is a religious concept. And as you may know, I don't have any religion. To me, sin is different from laws or morals. Laws are made by humans, and policed by humans. Morals are inculcated in one by their parents and culture. Sin is what some religions claims as wrong (e.g. homosexuality is a sin in christian belief, not providing equal share of wealth to multiple spouses is a sin in muslim belief). I believe in laws and morals. I do not believe in sin. I don't doubt your definition from the hebrew about sin meaning missing the mark ....the question is whose mark am I supposed to be missing? If your answer is god's, then you must understand that I do not believe in any god/s. Hence, it would be very irrational of me to believe I would be missing the mark of someone/something I do not believe in. No, I do not believe I am perfect.....far from it. Unfortunately, I have many faults. There are many many ways I can improve, and I try to do just that. By the way UF, I've notice your posts and I'm sincere when I say I'm glad you are here to express yourself in a courteous way. Thank you very much for tolerating my presence on this board. I hope I can once in a while provide some useful perspective. Best regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 28, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2004 Dear budman, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Don't get me wrong, I am glad you are here also, but I must ask: Why? Are you here because you really want some answers? Or are you attempting to discredit Christianity in some way? You yourself stated you don't believe in Christianity at all. So why do you frequent a Christian site? Thanks for your response. You have posed 3 questions. Here are my three replies: 1) I am here to see what christians and their beliefs are all about. 2) I am not here to discredit christianity. I do not attack anyone's faith. Along the same line, I don't think anyone needs to defend their faith. I think everyone has a right to believe (or disbelieve) what they want. I'm not here to convert anyone to anything. 3) I frequent christian sites (and other sites) because I wish to interact with people who are not like me. I enjoy interacting with people who are different. Do you? Hope I was able to answer you with some clarity. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 28, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2004 UF, So was Jesus Christ a Good man? As for my not having common courtesy? Good one. Touche! See what I mean about your brilliant mind. I lack common courtesy where the Gospel is concerned for I have died to it. It is extremely courteous of me to explain these things to you. Despite your offense. I am glad you are here too. Since you are sin free? You can tell me if Jesus Christ was a Good man? I do not subscribe to any of the above. I have no knowledge of his place in history if any. Do you not think that you might owe it to yourself to find out? If you deem to equate Him with the other supposed good men who have founded Religions? Thereby placing Him on a relative scale with them? Shouldn't you ought to investigate what you are denying? Instead of out of hand denying what He said? The mark that George is talking about is God. Where do you suppose your fathers, father got his moral code? Did it just kinda evolve? You see the mistake you are making is in the effect that you miss the commonality of the Higher Moral code. That rather than being hammered out by men. It was handed down by God then ignored by men or completely changed to fit their own image of who God is and How they perceive Him. Yet you see He has spoken. His Word remains with us today. Those who acknowledge it are wise. You see God has spoken of the condition of mens hearts; Ge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 28, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2004 Dear Dr. Luke, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. I am sorry of I have offended you. It was not my intention. Since you are sin free? You can tell me if Jesus Christ was a Good man? I never claimed to be sin free. All I said was that I do not believe in sin. Sin is a religious concept, in this case, a christian concept. You may attribute all the sin you wish to me. It doesn't bother me. I cannot tell if Jesus was a good man. I do not know him, and he has not written anything for me to consider. Other people have written things and attributed them to him. Some which support each other, others contradict such that I do not know if I trust any of them. Do you not think that you might owe it to yourself to find out? If you deem to equate Him with the other supposed good men who have founded Religions? Thereby placing Him on a relative scale with them? Shouldn't you ought to investigate what you are denying? Instead of out of hand denying what He said? If you know of any gospel according to Jesus that I should read, I am willing. As to the current bible, either NIV or KJV, I've read them already. I have also read some of the other gospels not included in the bible. Where do you suppose your fathers, father got his moral code? Did it just kinda evolve? My grandfather got his moral code from his parents and his culture, which, by the way is not christian. You see the mistake you are making is in the effect that you miss the commonality of the Higher Moral code. On the contrary, I have not missed this commonality of any higher moral code from your god. My ancestors have developed a moral code that has worked fine without any regard or reference to your god. So UF what does your heart tell you? Deep down inside your heart? What should God be like to satisfy you? My heart tells me to continue to disbelieve until given evidence. Deep down in my heart, my heart tells me to disbelieve until given evidence. If your god truly exists, then he/she/it must be omniscient (all-knowing). Being omniscient, your god will know what evidence will satisfy me to his/her existence. As you have said before in a previous post, if he exists, and wants me to believe in him, he will provide that evidence in no uncertain terms (i.e. draw me to him). I am sure you do not wish me to be irrational, and believe without being convinced? Peace, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted November 28, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2004 UF, I'm glad to see you are seeking the Lord! Many people don't even bother. Do you believe the bible to be manmade lies? You claimed that you have read versions. You understand a believers truth. My question is what are your beliefs on the existance of man? How was man created? Why ? What purpose? Is love an emotion created for human reproduction? if so, who created emotion & why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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