Among Christians, White Mainline Protestants Least Believe Abortion

[nebula]

Here is something to consider, Alpha - pre-born babies have been known to respond to things. (Google search babies respond in the womb for example.)

 

Here is an excerpt from one of those links:

 

Your baby's growth and development in the womb is a remarkable experience. At the beginning of your second month of pregnancy, your little one's eyes, nose, and ears are clearly visible via ultrasound, and by the fifth month, your baby's hearing has fully developed. His newfound ability to recognize you and other familiar voices in the environment around him is quickly established.

 

Benefits of Prenatal Stimulation

 

Prenatal stimulation through music heard regularly while in the womb might provide some babies with a sense of confidence and relaxation after they're born. You and your baby also will quickly discover an excellent way to bond and share in the emotional and potential intellectual development benefits this method may bring.

The ABCs of Prenatal Music Stimulation

 

Prenatal stimulation is a method that uses stimuli such as sounds (mother's voice and musical ones), movement, pressure, vibrations, and light to communicate with a developing baby prior to birth. While in the womb, Baby learns to recognize and respond to different stimuli, which leads to encouragement of physical, mental, and sensory development. Stimulation exercises will allow Baby to communicate with you and your spouse/partner through her movement in the womb, establish a relationship between specific stimuli (such as your voices) and, most importantly, help develop her memory.

 

Source

 

So I would have to ask, could this be possible if the "fetus" was not a living human being? Or does this not sound like a being who has an active soul?

[Elhanan]

Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 

The main argument used by abortion proponents is that the fetus isn't a person; it's just tissue.  Yet God refers to Jeremiah in very personal terms.  And wouldn't you know it - abortion providers on the other hand go to great lengths to de-personalize the abortion decision and procedure. 

A long time ago, I volunteered as I phone counselor for the Billy Graham crusades.  When the local TV station broadcasted a crusade, I would take phone calls from the viewing public answering questions, sharing Christ etc.  I remember taking a call from a grieving mother who called to express her remorse over talking her daughter into having an abortion if I recall correctly because of the shame of having a child out-of-wedlock - I also got the impression she didn't like the father either.  Whatever the case, after some time passed she came upon the realization that what she had actually done was to help kill her own grandchild.  She called to confess and seek reconciliation with God.  Fortunately we have a God who is gracious and merciful to forgive our sins when we confess; otherwise imagine the weight of guilt that this woman would otherwise carry for the rest of her life.

[GoldenEagle]

Over 54 million babies have been killed through an abortion since 1974.

That's 3,300 babies killed every day.

That's 137 every hour.

 

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

Question: If anybody is an orphan is not the baby in the womb?

 

Every story is different. Every Answer is the same - Jesus Christ.

 

Perhaps the problem isn't as the Church that we haven't tried and failed. This is instead a case where as the Church we've failed to try.

 

See:

 

God bless,

GE

[JDavis]

Over 54 million babies have been killed through an abortion since 1974.

That's 3,300 babies killed every day.

That's 137 every hour.

 

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

Question: If anybody is an orphan is not the baby in the womb?

 

Every story is different. Every Answer is the same - Jesus Christ.

 

Perhaps the problem isn't as the Church that we haven't tried and failed. This is instead a case where as the Church we've failed to try.

 

See:

 

God bless,

GE

 

part of the problem is that we have tied too much to a political party that has no incentive to actually end abortion.   we get a lot of lip service, but the number of abortion per 1000 pregnancies is almost equal today as it was one year after the passing of RvW.

[Willa]

Facts of life. When egg and sperm unite they form a unique DNA It is not canine or feline, it is human.

The cells immediately begin to divide. Dividing cells =life. Therefore we have a unique human life.

When does the spirit of the man form it him? At conception. The Hebrew people even counted their age from conception instead of from birth as we do.

Babies recognize and respond to the voices of their parents that that they heard while in the womb.

The problem is that government is deciding at what state of development an infant can be considered human. If a mother and fetus are killed in an assult the perpratrator can be charged with both crimes. But if an abortion is performed at the same stage of life, it is legal. It is convenience, not logic. And if the fetus is not considered human while in the womb they feel justified in torturing the child by tearing him limb from limb to remove him from the womb or else burning him to death with acid! I only wish you could see the untrasound of that. The baby definitely feels pain. Then they have to search for body parts to be sure they have removed all of the child. There is even talk of not considering a young child human and extending the age of which you can dispose of the child till up to 2 years!! I wish I had saved the documentation for that. I have seen all the specimans of pickled babies and the ultrasounds of developmental processes while taking anatomy and physiology.-- All the things they don't tell mothers who are seeking abortions. They used to have jars of babies on display in the hospitals, too. Human life is no loger considered sacred and something to be prserved and valued. We are disposable units.

So when are you planning to declare me non human because instead of being in a developmental state I am now in a declining state? This is actually the next step of the "lifeboat plan". When you consider me non productive when I retire, am I then no longer human? Obama is following this model, saying he is for the working poor. He is now limiting the benefits for the disabled but extending them to illegal aliens.

Alf, if you say yes, that I am no longer human, I will take you off my friends list and chase you down with a frying pan!!!!! Notice that I am losing my cool. This is not so funny to me because it is a harsh reality in the world we are facing, which is why I choose to go to Catholic hospitals.

[GoldenEagle]

 

Over 54 million babies have been killed through an abortion since 1974.

That's 3,300 babies killed every day.

That's 137 every hour.

 

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

Question: If anybody is an orphan is not the baby in the womb?

 

Every story is different. Every Answer is the same - Jesus Christ.

 

Perhaps the problem isn't as the Church that we haven't tried and failed. This is instead a case where as the Church we've failed to try.

 

See:

 

God bless,

GE

 

part of the problem is that we have tied too much to a political party that has no incentive to actually end abortion.   we get a lot of lip service, but the number of abortion per 1000 pregnancies is almost equal today as it was one year after the passing of RvW.

 

 

Interesting where did you see this data? And is it accurate? Or something that is promoted by such organizations as Planned Parenthood?

[JDavis]

Over 54 million babies have been killed through an abortion since 1974.

That's 3,300 babies killed every day.

That's 137 every hour.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Question: If anybody is an orphan is not the baby in the womb?

Every story is different. Every Answer is the same - Jesus Christ.

Perhaps the problem isn't as the Church that we haven't tried and failed. This is instead a case where as the Church we've failed to try.

See:

God bless,

GE

part of the problem is that we have tied too much to a political party that has no incentive to actually end abortion. we get a lot of lip service, but the number of abortion per 1000 pregnancies is almost equal today as it was one year after the passing of RvW.

Interesting where did you see this data? And is it accurate? Or something that is promoted by such organizations as Planned Parenthood?

I got the data from the Guttmacher Institute. i will link later, can't do so from my phone

In 74 there was about 19 abortions per 1000 pregnancies.

In 2008 the number was 19.6

[Willa]

You have to remember that abortion is the medical term used for all accidental miscarriages within the first? trimester, as well as those that are induced.

[alphaparticle]

Butero, thanks for the interesting arguments.The considerations are worth some thought. I have re-read today and will re-read the relevant scripture you posted again in the future with an open mind. A couple of the verses give me pause for thought.

 

nebula, to be honest I don't find reflexive responses indicative of an 'active soul'. There is a certain amount of neurological complexity and stuff that has to be wired to reasonably think that awareness and conscious experience can happen, and that seems like the most obvious sign of a present soul to me. And note, I do think there is ensoulment/consciousness happening *before* birth at some point. For instance, I am sure that a 36 wk fetus is a full person. But I have a hard time comparing that to a fertilized egg, or a ball of cells, such as a blastocyst. So sometime inbetween that and the 36 wk old baby is where I would certainly say yeah, you can't just up and kill that person.

 

Willamina, as I like you and don't really want you to unfriend me I will hold my peace.

Edited August 20, 2013 by alphaparticle

[alphaparticle]

 

I don't think that follows. Were they a person before the zygote formed? The moment before sperm and egg combined? That verse doesn't help clarify that sort of question.If God knew him before Jeremiah was formed in the womb, it doesn't say when Jeremiah came into being in the world. That a 10 wk old embryo has human morphological features doesn't really seem to answer the question much either. A black and white statement would help, but as that isn't the case, I will simply have to keep an open mind and look.

 

 

 

 

 

The justification that it is not a human life until some undefined "X" point is simply a method used to desensitize the fact that a human being is being murdered.  It is an attempt to sanitize the act and remove all emotion from it.  When someone cannot point to a specific moment when the baby actually becomes "human" then it is a bogus concept, and those in the medical community who support abortion right up to the point of delivery contradict themselves because the medical community says it is a "life" when it is viable outside the womb.  An infant being murdered as it is being delivered is viable, outside the womb, it is simply being murdered before it can get outside that womb.  

 

Advocates of abortion value the "liberty" of a woman to not be burdened with a child over the rights of the child being murdered.  Stop and think about that for a moment.  Because the movement telling you that a woman has this "right" to choose is, at the exact same time, telling you that the other person involved in the decision, i.e., the infant, has no rights.  The people who find no problem with abortion actually have no value for life at all.  You cannot value life and advocate murder, at the same time.  And anyone trying to justify abortion, or say there is nothing wrong with it should really study the subject, and how it became so wide-spread in this country.  Because it was instituted with one purpose in view, and that original purpose is still being carried out, and with more success than it's originator could have even hoped for.  But most people in this country are totally ignorant of where this country's abortion policy and Planned Parenthood came from.  

 

Give me the exact point in time in which it changes from being just a "fetus" with no rights, and is not human, and then changes to a human being with rights.

 

 

I had none of those intentions. It's not a cover up to promote anything whatsoever, it's how it honestly appears to me to be the case. Accusing people of having ill intentions is not helpful.