Call for Crackdown on Gays Enclosed in Right to Free Speech?

[Guest LadyC]

 

Hello fellow members,

 

a Christian recently called for homosexuals to be arrested (read the last four paragraphs of this Christian Post article).

And now a non-profit organization called Liberty Counsel is currently defending him on court pleading his right to free speech.

 

I think that sexuality belongs to one's identity. The right to free speech is to be as open within the constraints prediscribed by the protection of others from discrimination. In my opinion, a call for someone to be arrested for his or her identity is discriminatory.

 

Thomas

 

After reading through the article a couple of times, I see that you have been dishonest about what this person said.  He did not call for anyone to be arrested.  He stated that he thought Uganda's anti-homosexual laws were still too harsh.  He did not call for anyone in the U.S. to be arrested.  He said that he felt that homosexuality should be criminalized, which it already is in sexual deviancy laws in almost every state in the U.S..  Those laws just aren't enforced, and haven't been for decades.  And no one is going to start enforcing them now.  He did not call for any punitive measures against homosexuals at all.  And nothing he said had anything to do with free speech.  Sexual behavior is not a matter of free speech.

 

If a person does not have an identity beyond and outside their sexuality, that is a person with some severe problems.  I have never felt the need to go around telling people how straight I was or that my whole identity was wrapped up in my straightness  Our sexuality should be a very small facet of our identity since it entails a very small percentage of our life.  And since anything having to do with our sexuality should be confined solely between our partner and ourselves, no matter what our sexual orientation is, we should not be sharing our "sexual identity" with the public at all in any way, shape or form.  And if someone feels the need to do so, repeatedly and militantly, they have some severe identity problems.

 

amen

amen

and again, amen.

 

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts. and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

i want my FAITH to be the largest part of MY equation. i hope someday you'll realize that a person's identity is who they are in Christ. YOUR identity should be that. MY identity should be that. 

 

and likewise, sadly, a person's LACK of faith is pretty much the biggest part of  their identity. that's why showing them who Christ is, what Christ wants for each of us, and what He did for each of us is so critically important. and whether you approve or not, part of showing them that is to help them understand that homosexuality should not be any part of their identity.

[LadyKay]

What I have observed about this ( and unfortunately many other topics as well) is that we as a Christian community seem to think that we have an obligation to legislate our ethics/morality/ethos whatever you want to call it, and that will somehow make someone realize the "error" of their ways. We (Christians) aren't to condone sin, we aren't to take part in it, but we (The US) aren't exclusively a Christian society, and we aren't a theocracy (although I wish we were). So how are we to interact with those who don't share our outlook? And how are we to act when we don't have a majority vote? Remember someday we will be the minority (Revelation says so) and if we are showing so little respect for a differing opinion then you shouldn't be surprised when the table will be turned and we will be called to be "arrested" for our thoughts. 

 Yep, Yep this is true.

[thomas t]

 

 I see that you have been dishonest about what this person said.  He did not call for anyone to be arrested.  [...] He did not call for any punitive measures against homosexuals at all.  

 

That’s not true Cobalt, the first article I mentioned quotes him frankly stating that he “gives the revised bill his support”.  I would be happy if you could first read closely and then refrain from accusing me of being dishonest, thank you.

 

 

 

  He stated that he thought Uganda's anti-homosexual laws were still too harsh.  

 

That’s not true either. He merely said that he thinks the bill would be too harsh in the letter, please read closely again. The existing laws already allow policemen to arrest homosexuals (wikipedia).

 

Thomas

[thomas t]

 

 

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts.

 

 

Good morning Lady C,

I stay with my opinion, Lady.

 

 

and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

actually I don't. I just think that sexuality is part of one's identity just like profession or religion.

 

Thomas

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts.

 

 

Good morning Lady C,

I stay with my opinion, Lady.

 

 

and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

actually I don't. I just think that sexuality is part of one's identity just like profession or religion.

 

Thomas

 

 

Those who are homosexual make sexuality a large part of their identity. Heterosexuals do not make it part of their identity at all. 

Gender is a part of peoples identity, but again, those who are transgender make it a much larger part of their identity then people who are not.

[TsukinoRei]

He didn't just call for homosexuals to be arrested, he advised the politicians who wrote the Kill the Gays Bill, as they wrote the Bill.  When he spoke to Ugandan's about homosexuals he stirred up religious fervour and then defended an American who was on trial for killing a homosexual and did not rebuke the crowd when they cheered at the homosexuals death - no he told them to be more afraid of the homosexuals in their own country because the american who killed one was being punished.  This man crossed a line and it cost lives.  He claimed authority in Christ and used that authority to stir people to murder.  Furthermore, he has also been working with the politicians and Christians in Russia.  Even in the United States free speech ends at a call to violence and at a call to remove the rights of others. Scott Lively is not a good man and should be held accountable for his deceptions.

[Fez]

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts.

 

Good morning Lady C,

I stay with my opinion, Lady.

 

and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

actually I don't. I just think that sexuality is part of one's identity just like profession or religion.

 

Thomas

 

Those who are homosexual make sexuality a large part of their identity. Heterosexuals do not make it part of their identity at all. 

Gender is a part of peoples identity, but again, those who are transgender make it a much larger part of their identity then people who are not.

Although I agree that many homosexuals make sexuality part of their identity, I don't agree that heterosexuals don't. I know many heterosexuals that flaunt their sexuality to the nth degree. (Both of which are a sin or lead to sin).

When we agree that homosexuality is a sin, just like all the other sins, and stop trying to justify the sin out of it, and accept it as sin, and learn to deal with it as we do all other sins, it will remain a cardinal stumbling block to our grace and forgiveness.

[TsukinoRei]

 

 

 

 

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts.

 

 

Good morning Lady C,

I stay with my opinion, Lady.

 

 

and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

actually I don't. I just think that sexuality is part of one's identity just like profession or religion.

 

Thomas

 

 

Those who are homosexual make sexuality a large part of their identity. Heterosexuals do not make it part of their identity at all. 

Gender is a part of peoples identity, but again, those who are transgender make it a much larger part of their identity then people who are not.

 

 

Honestly, watch a small boy strutting behind his father or mimicking the walk of a popular rapper, then watch a small girls eyes go wide at a doll in a pretty dress or playing with her mothers make up - then tell me that interpolating with gender norms isn't an enormous drive in identity formation for any heterosexual.

[TsukinoRei]

 

 

That’s not true either. He merely said that he thinks the bill would be too harsh in the letter, please read closely again. The existing laws already allow policemen to arrest homosexuals (wikipedia).

 

Thomas

 

 

 

I will not refrain from saying it, when it is true.  You clearly say that the man was calling for homosexuals to be arrested.  He never once said that in the article you linked to, so that is dishonest.  And you continue to misrepresent what he said.  This is a direct copy and paste of the portion in question:

 

Lively has previously stated on his website that he supports Uganda's recently revised "Anti-Homosexuality Bill," which dropped the death penalty for "aggravated homosexuality" and criminalizes homosexual acts in the country.

"In my opinion, the Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Bill is still too harsh in the letter.

 

I would prefer something closer to the approach several American states have taken toward marijuana: criminalize it but minimize the penalty and turn a blind eye toward discrete violations," Lively wrote in a Dec. 2012 post.

 

 

 

You even entitled the thread "crackdown on Gays."  He advocates no such crackdown.  In the above statement he is advocating for the Uganda bill to be more lenient.  That isn't what you said. You clearly said he wanted gays arrested, and he never said that.  And if you continue to mis-represent what the man said, i will continue to point it out.  Time, after time, after time.  If you have to resort to dishonest tactics to float your agenda, there cannot be much good in it.

 

 

That is what he is saying for the press now that he's in trouble.  I've been watching him preach his own words for some time now.  He absolutely called for their arrest, he absolutely urged Ugandan's to treat homosexuals even more harshly and guard from becoming more lenient.  He absolutely had a hand in authoring the bill that criminalized homosexuality.  He absolutely spread false rumours that the homosexual army was coming from the west and converting more homosexuals - there has always been homosexuality in Uganda.  He absolutely lead a crowd to cheering for the violent death of a homosexual who was attacked in a park in the United States and then called the arrest of the one who killed him persecution and told the crowd to guard against laws that protect homosexuals in their own country.  The man is nuts.  And now he's dishonest too.  You tube him.

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

sorry thomas, but you're way off the mark on all counts.

 

 

Good morning Lady C,

I stay with my opinion, Lady.

 

 

and i must ask, do you REALLY think that a person's sexuality is the sum of his identity? or even the largest part of the pie of one's identity?

 

actually I don't. I just think that sexuality is part of one's identity just like profession or religion.

 

Thomas

 

 

Those who are homosexual make sexuality a large part of their identity. Heterosexuals do not make it part of their identity at all. 

Gender is a part of peoples identity, but again, those who are transgender make it a much larger part of their identity then people who are not.

 

 

Honestly, watch a small boy strutting behind his father or mimicking the walk of a popular rapper, then watch a small girls eyes go wide at a doll in a pretty dress or playing with her mothers make up - then tell me that interpolating with gender norms isn't an enormous drive in identity formation for any heterosexual.

 

And what about the girl who likes to play sports and doesn't play with dolls? Is she lacking? Or the boys who for years played with dolls (GI Joes). Are they lacking?  Children play with what they consider fun. And boys and girls look up to their fathers.

 

What I said was 'Gender is a part of peoples identity, but again, those who are transgender make it a much larger part of their identity then people who are not.'.  People who claim that their physical sex does not match who they are, are far more focused on their gender.